Reefs.org Forums

[chris&barb]

I see people talking about cyanide caught fish and that they are still comming in from here and there but nobody names names. Why? If you want it to stop you have to hang them out to dry and give hobbyists and store owners the info needed to avoid these fish.

It looks like at least some people know what exporters and importers are dealing with these fish.

PeterIMA from the Banggai thread

Even 20 years ago, the most notorious of the cyanide suppliers (Cebu Aquatics) conducted tight packing and it was reported to me that the importer had huge mortalities (fish dying like flies) in the import facility (International Seabord in Chicago).

Why not lay it all out so people like me who aren't in the inner circle can be informed about the who's and whats so we can do something about it? I mean just a few weeks ago everyone was hanging Steve out to dry over one fish that he may or may not have sold to a hobbyist but there are all these collectors, exporters and importers dealing with cyanide caught fish and nobody is outing them. What gives?

How about if some of the people in the know start naming names and laying out the COC of these fish.

[PeterIMA]

It is not only a couple of Philippine and Indonesian exporters who export cyanide-caught fish. Almost all do it. So, outing them requires listing almost everyone.

The International Marinelife Alliance (IMA) conducted cyanide testing for the Philippines Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources (BFAR) from 1993 to 2001. I have a database that identifies the exporters selling cyanide fish over that period. The trade would like you to believe that the problem has declined or disappeared.

All that happended is that cyanide detection testing (CDT) declined since 2001 (not the actual use of cyanide). But, until cyanide testing is reinstated, I cannot list who presently is buying and selling cyanide caught marine aquarium fish.
Peter Rubec

[Jaime Baquero]

Peter,

When you (IMA) had the names of the exporters showing positive results, back in the late 90's early 00's, why you didn't make that public announcement?

Jaime

[PeterIMA]

Jaime, Actually, I did not obtain the data as it was being collected. I received about half of the database in 2001 and presented a talk on it at the Marine Onamentnats Conferemce held in Florida in 2001. I did not receive the full database until later. BFAR considered the data being collected by the IMA (under contract with BFAR) as confidential. BFAR would need to approve its release.

Peter

[Jaime Baquero]

Peter,

The fact is that with all the information that was collected during ALL those years NOTHING happened to anyone of the major exporters in the Philippines. IMA/BFAR did nothing and exporters in the Philippines keep sending juiced fish around the globe.

I understand corruption is one of the major problems in the Philippines and is because of that that BFAR didn't act.

Corruption in the Philippines is worse these days, most of the exporters keep their systems overcrowded, over medicated (copper and antibiotics) and water quality in the holding facilities is poor.

You have been talking about using chemicals to neutralize ammonia in the plastic bags during shipping..... but what about the quality of the shipping water itself? It is water that comes from areas close to contaminated areas as for example Manila Bay. Have you analyzed the quality of that shipping water?

jaime

[PeterIMA]

Jaime, I agree that BFAR could have done more with the data that was collected through the CDT laboratories. Last February there was a CDT workhshop sponsored by NOAA/NMFS held in Orlando, FL that BFAR attended along with others including myself. The two papers submitted by Mr. Gil Adora Deputy Director of BFAR indicates their willingness to reimplement cyanide testing. However, they also identified their need for external funding to establish and run a network of CDT laboratories similar to the network that was maintained by the IMA.

It is true that no exporter has been prosecuted for exporting cyanide-caught fish. Corruption does exist in the Philippines and may have affected the ability of BFAR to enforce Philippines laws.

Some exporters maintain state of the art filtration systems, others do not. I don't believe there is any law that requires exporters to maintain certain water quality standards. The MAC created standards but I don't believe thay had any way of forcing compliance (under ISO it is voluntary).

I have advised several companies that exported net-caught fish. AMRI exported net-caught fish when I visited the Philppines in 1999 and 2000. They admitted that the water used by many exporters came from Manila Bay and was seriously polluted (despite being treated before delivery to the export faciltiies). AMRI paid to have clean water taken from Subic Bay at a site I viisited in the Duty-Free Trade Zone.

Imperial worked with Ferdinand Cruz and I visited their Manila facility in 2005. They bought treated water that came from Manila Bay. I did some water testing on their water (using reagent test strips to measure ammonia, pH, nitrates, and total hardness). I also did quite a lot of testing of the water arriving in bags with marine aquarium fishes from the field using the test strips and using a Hanna pH and temperature hand-held meter. I also supplied them with kits by which they could do bacterial testing, copper, and chlorine testing.

Following my advice, staff added powdered alum (aluminum sulfate) to the concrete vat where the water coming by tanker truck from Manila Bay delivered saltwater to Imperial. After the alum precipitated the organics, the supernatant water was pumped to another large concete vat where liquid chlorine bleach (similar to Clorox) was added. The chorine residual was then neutralized using sodium thiosulfate pellets that I provided. These methods are similar to methods applied for sewage treatment. They can easily be applied by the exporters.

[Jaime Baquero]

Peter,

How many exporters in the Philippines are treating the shipping water TODAY?

What is the percentage of marine ornamentals coming to NA from the Ph?

It has been stated MANY times that the solutions to many of the problems this trade faces involve much more that net training. What is the point of promoting net caught fish if those same fish are suffering a real ordeal from the moment they are collected?

BFAR has demonstrated many times that it is an inoperative government agency. Who is going to trust such people? Why you keep working with them?

jaime

[PeterIMA]

Jaime,

a) I don't know how many exporters in the Philippines treat their water. From what I have observed over the years, they at least treat the water or obtain unpolluted seawater that goes into the shipping bags.

b) What is the percentage of marine ornamentals coming to North America from the Philippines?

Since, accurate statistics are not maintained by either the Philippines or by the USA, this is difficult to answer. I think I answered this previously referring you to a paper by Christina Balboa that was published in the book "Marine Ornamentals, Collection, Culture, and Cultivation" that indicated about 54% based on analyses of paperwork submitted to USFWS, that accompanied shipments coming into the USA (only about one or two months of data were analyzed).

My guess is it is somewhere between 40-50% of the total of MO fish coming into the USA from all countries. Canada probably receives about the same ratio.

c) Fish that are properly collected (with nets) and properly handled and packed do not face an ordeal. Fish that are mishandled and die are an economic loss to all those involved throughout the CoC. It makes good economic sense to do this to ensure that the fish survive long enough to be sold at the retail level.

d) While I share your frustration with the inaction of BFAR on these issues in the past, recently there appears to be a very real change in their attitudes, and a willingess to help improve the export trade in aquarium fish.

I think it is the exporters who need to change their operating practices, if they wish to continue to do business in the Philippines.

Peter