Reefs.org Forums

[oceanfish]

hmmnn... then I guess it's been a while since you've seen a Snorkel Bob add.

[JeremyR]

We probably lose 1 in 100 yellow tangs. Come on.

[Thales]

Yep. Links to data would make this discuuion way less he said she said.

[oceanfish]

We probably lose 1 in 100 yellow tangs. Come on.

The losses start in the nets. In '07 Hawaii collectors reported more than a 3% loss in Yellow Tangs before they ever sold them. 9,281 Yellow Tangs.

The Parrish and Claisse study estimated that only 30% of juvenile tangs die in the wild over the course of 5 months. 70% live longer than that.

The industry would be hard pressed to show that 70% of yellow tangs survive longer than 5 months in captivity.

[JeremyR]

Only 3%? You better come up with a bigger number if you want action, 3% isn't going to scare anyone.

[oceanfish]

Only 3%? You better come up with a bigger number if you want action, 3% isn't going to scare anyone.

It's not meant to scare. Some people, like you will say that's nothing, and others will not be happy about it. Maybe it will stimulate some more dialog.

[JeremyR]

Food fisherman probably have more loss/waste than 3%. Should they be shut down?

[oceanfish]

Food fisherman probably have more loss/waste than 3%. Should they be shut down?

No. This isn't about fishing. Besides, the local culture here isn't big on waste. "Take only what you need" is a very strong value held by many. No one needs an aquarium fish, though plenty seem to want them and think they have a right to have them.

[JeremyR]

Right. Unfortunately, when you apply logic things aren't exactly how you are trying to spin them. You are using numbers like 9000+ tangs died as a shock value tactic, when the rest of the world would love to only have a 3% loss rate. What it boils down too is that fish are a resource.. if it's ok to eat them, then you are going to be hard pressed to convince the majority that it's not ok to harvest them for other purposes. The point is to harvest in a manageable number whether it's for eating or for aquariums.

I'm not sure why we are all having this discussion anyways. Until oceanfish comes out with their name & affilliation with this issue, we should assume troll and quit responding.

Here, let me help you out. My name is (insert name here..snorkelbob?) and I my affiliation with this issue is (insert position here). If you can't provide such info, then go the hell away.

[spawner]

I'm not sure why we are all having this discussion anyways. Until oceanfish comes out with their name & affilliation with this issue, we should assume troll and quit responding.

Here, let me help you out. My name is (insert name here..snorkelbob?) and I my affiliation with this issue is (insert position here). If you can't provide such info, then go the hell away.

It's a hamster wheel.

[seamaiden]

Food fisherman probably have more loss/waste than 3%. Should they be shut down?

No. This isn't about fishing. Besides, the local culture here isn't big on waste. "Take only what you need" is a very strong value held by many. No one needs an aquarium fish, though plenty seem to want them and think they have a right to have them.

Why is it not also about fishing? Isn't the real idea behind all of this that of ecological degradation via removal of species? If it's not, then the real idea behind all of this is to tear down keeping animals in an aquarium only, because both practices serve their own purposes and both have very similar ultimate end results as far as the fish are concerned.

[iridophores]

to me it sounds like Rene Umberger from Maui. She is Snorkel Bob's aquarium hating apprentice.

Everyone agrees that it is not a resource issue. Science has not backed you no matter how you try to use snapshots and misinterpretation of data. Your whole beef is with keeping animals in captivity/ and or cruelty.

To all, dont waste your time arguing with this lady, she is not open minded and practically foams at the mouth when she thinks about Nemo being mistreated.

[naesco]

Is there any update of the tonnes of small skinny yellow tangs that are hitting the market.
Someone posted before that small yellows are plump and healthy looking in the wild and the emaciation is caused by poor holding/shipping.
Anyone know the culprit?

[JeremyR]

Actually Wayne, the yellow tangs we have been getting lately have been fine.

[naesco]

Actually Wayne, the yellow tangs we have been getting lately have been fine.

Great News!
Bad handling and shipping techniques that affect the healthy of the fish on arrival, hurt industry's image.

[swsaltwater]

Fishing for food bycatch i smore than 3% loss. they throw back about a pound of injured or dead animals for every pound of shrimp they catch for instance. My uncle owned a shrimp boat in New orleans for a long time. There would be anything and everything in the nets, sea snakes, turtles, crabs, fish, inverts, etc.....Some live most don't from what I saw.

[PeterIMA]

Actually, From a fisheries perspective all fish removed (whether they live or not) can be considered to have died (all would be put into the fishing mortality component). The problem with the yellow tang fishery off of the big Island of Hawaii is that too many yellow tangs are being removed (as documented by Tissot and Hallacher in several reports to NOAA and in their primary publications). Significant differences in tang abundances were found inside and outside fisheries replenishment areas (FRAs).

Having said the above, I would agree with others on this forum that the aquarium trade has a right to harvest marine aquarium fish species, provided they do not overexploit the resource. It is up the the State of Hawaii to regulate fishing effort. This can be done in various ways. So far, I have not seen a convincing argument why collecting should be banned. The draft legislation is poorly formulated and many of the recommendations are not enforceable.

Peter

[seamaiden]

Fishing for food bycatch i smore than 3% loss. they throw back about a pound of injured or dead animals for every pound of shrimp they catch for instance. My uncle owned a shrimp boat in New orleans for a long time. There would be anything and everything in the nets, sea snakes, turtles, crabs, fish, inverts, etc.....Some live most don't from what I saw.

Interesting, one of my uncles in NO owns a boat repair outfit. He's up on the north side of Lake Pontchartrain last I heard.

I wasn't kidding when I asked why fishing would not be included in this discussion regarding extraction of species to the detriment of a given ecosystem. I guess I will no longer expect an answer.

[oceanfish]

I wasn't kidding when I asked why fishing would not be included in this discussion regarding extraction of species to the detriment of a given ecosystem. I guess I will no longer expect an answer.

Because this is a discussion about aquarium collecting - not spearfishing, pole fishing, netting. It's about using fish for entertainment not food. It's about the effects of aquarium collecting on both the reefs and the animals collected. Different topic altogether. It just doesn't work to keep trying to deflect the heat by saying, "but they're doing it too!!". The topic is aquarium collecting.

[JeremyR]

I love anonymous