Reefs.org Forums

[spawner]

More legislation

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session20 ... /SB75_.htm

[dizzy]

(c) The aquarium collecting list shall only include species that are shown by a department or federal agency study to meet the following criteria:

(1) The specie can survive capture, transport, and captivity for at least one hundred eighty days;


Wow, I wonder how long it will take to get these studies done? I hope the Dems put a little money in the stimulus package to cover the costs.

[GreshamH]

Wow Mitch Just who is going top pay for that, the tax payers? I bet the study will take 2 years as well. 1/2 a year to run the test and 1.5 to write it up

[naesco]

There are zillions of Obamaites just waiting to make changes quickly.

I expect there will be federal money available shortly and you will not like the results.

Instead of continuing to sit on your a***s and do nothing, why don't you start drafting a list of Hawaiian unsuitable species and have industry volunteer not to continue harvesting same.

[GreshamH]

There are zillions of Obamaites just waiting to make changes quickly.

I expect there will be federal money available shortly and you will not like the results.

Instead of continuing to sit on your a***s and do nothing, why don't you start drafting a list of Hawaiian unsuitable species and have industry volunteer not to continue harvesting same.

Oh yah, change will happen that quick didn't you listen to his speech where he said it may take more then his first four years to see real change?

Who the F*(& do you think you are to claim this ambiguous "you" is sitting on their ass? Who is "you" and don't say industry as that's simply not true. The Hawaiian collectors have put a LOT of effort into this and you are belittling what they have tried to do. Others have spent years on this issue and you are belittling what they have done. Shut up and open you eyes!!!

[spawner]

Wayne the problem is that the people that keep writing this trash don't fully understand or care to learn about the problem they are trying to fix. Hawaii needs to at least look over to the east coast and see what Florida is trying to do. While Florida isn't perfect at least they have some structure. The bill writers should start with something that appears to be crafted with logic, they might get somewhere.

[reefrash]

There are zillions of Obamaites just waiting to make changes quickly.

I expect there will be federal money available shortly and you will not like the results.

Instead of continuing to sit on your a***s and do nothing, why don't you start drafting a list of Hawaiian unsuitable species and have industry volunteer not to continue harvesting same.

Wow, sit on your asses? That would mean that we would all emulate you..... You know what, get rid of your tanks and you become less of the "problem", oh yeah , that's right you're in Canada your tank has 100% sustainably harvested animals

[naesco]

Wayne the problem is that the people that keep writing this trash don't fully understand or care to learn about the problem they are trying to fix. Hawaii needs to at least look over to the east coast and see what Florida is trying to do. While Florida isn't perfect at least they have some structure. The bill writers should start with something that appears to be crafted with logic, they might get somewhere.

I couldn't agree more spawner but is legislation the only way.

Why can this industry not develop an Unsuitable Species List (USL) starting with the obvious, Hawaiian Cleaner Wrasse?
From the fishers to the LFS all could voluntarily agree not to harvest them and others.

Gresham I would like to hear about what has been done by industry since the Honourable Senator's Bill was tabled over a year ago.

It seems to me if real progress had been made the present Bill would not have been necessary.

[GreshamH]

It seems to you? Do you really think bills are put forward because there is a need, or others haven't been put forth, or past work is even looked at? If you want to know, read this forum. Several posted right here what they've been doing. In fact, like always, you replied in the thread

Stop wasting my time with questions you can answer yourself by paying attention to what you read. You didn't become a lawyer with an inability to read or remember what you read so apply that skill here please!!!

[JennM]

Wow, sit on your asses? That would mean that we would all emulate you..... You know what, get rid of your tanks and you become less of the "problem", oh yeah , that's right you're in Canada your tank has 100% sustainably harvested animals

Wayne has a tank?! Since when? Pix, we need pix!!!!

[PeterIMA]

yea Wayne, We would like to see some pics of Wayne's World (your reef tank) eh?

Peter

[rgbmatt]

FYI, this is from the Waikiki Aquarium's testimony in opposition to HB191:

If correct. these statements would reflect very badly on the Waikiki Aquarium, which
displays both these fish groups. In reality, the Waikiki Aquarium currently houses two
Hawaiian cleaner wrasses that have been on display for over 20 months. They are both in
excellent health, and are fed exclusively on commercially available fish food. We also
have long-term exhibits featuring several 'coral-eating' butterfly fishes that feed greedily
on fish food. Clearly, the two statements from the bill quoted above are wholly incorrect.
If kept in suitable conditions and maintained by a skilled aquarist, almost any fish species
can be switched over to an alternative 'fish food' diet.

There are four species of butterfly fish in Hawaii that really do need coral to survive and cannot be fed on anything else. Out of these, a grand total of eleven were caught in 2007.

The real problem with the bill is that is requires extensive "population studies" that do not currently exist and are beyond the scope of what is normally required to determine sustainable fishing levels. Essentially, every single species of fish in Hawaii would be off limits, so the bill is basically another sneaky way to ban taking animals for aquariums.

It's worth noting that, in the context this bill, it would be perfectly legal to take marine life for any other purpose besides aquarium pets - anybody could catch something and eat it, use it for bait, or throw it in the dumpster. But, any kid with a net and a bucket who wants to take home a fish from a tidepool and put it in a tank to enjoy it and learn about the ocean now becomes a criminal.

[spawner]

Like I said it is a real shame that the people writing this stuff don't really care about working to fix a problem in a logical thoughtful manner. Instead we get nowhere.

[dizzy]

Let's all hope Cass Sunstein doesn't seek advice from the sponsors of this bill.

[naesco]

I would think that it is pretty much guaranteed, Dizzy.
Obama lived for a while in Hawaii, correct?

Didn't we go through all of this over a year ago?
I understood that the Hawaiian marine industry was to work on concerns with the government on a voluntary basis.
Who dropped the ball?

[Thales]

No one dropped the ball. The guy putting up this idea seems to be on jihad and isn't really listening to the other side.

[swsaltwater]

Wild clams gone, now yellow tangs, what next............

[JeremyR]

I didn't realize we needed wild clams...?

[oceanfish]

There are four species of butterfly fish in Hawaii that really do need coral to survive and cannot be fed on anything else. Out of these, a grand total of eleven were caught in 2007.

I have to wonder which fish rgbmatt is referring too here. The '07 reports show that 11 Ornate Butterflyfish were caught on Oahu that year, and some were caught on the Big Island, too. But what about the other 3 he mentions? Which corallivores can be "switched over" to feed on something else by the typical hobbyist? How many of the 1871 Fourspot Butterflyfish that were collected that year are still alive today? How many of the 2762 Moorish Idols that were caught that year, survived for more than a month? What about the 1405 Cleaner Wrasses?

The Hawaii bill had an amendment ready to give public aquaria and researchers special exemptions. What the Waikiki aquarium is able to do with it's fish does not even remotely resemble what is going on in the hobby. We all know that mortality rates attributed to the newbie are astronomical.

Something has to be done to stop the "ridiculous overharvesting" that is happening on Hawaii's reefs - like the 1.76 million hermit crabs that have been taken since 2001. Compare that to the 47,000 that were taken in 2000. According to the experts, it is likely that entire local populations have been wiped out by the aquarium collectors. Meanwhile, the State resource managers just sit back and tally the numbers...

Why are at least 400,000 yellow tangs collected from Hawaii's reefs every year?

In a '97-'98 study, Tissot and Hallacher compared collected species populations to non collected species. They documented declines ranging from 38% - 75% in the most heavily collected species. Kona got their no-take areas, and the rest of the State got nothing. Unlimited, free for all, extraction for a $50 annual permit. No size limits, no species limits, no bag limits, no limits on the number of permits available: Regulations Florida has had in place for 20+ years.

Of course Hawaii residents and tourists want this stopped. Our most BEAUTIFUL reef fish are dissappearing.

[GreshamH]

Welcome to the forum. Other then citing reports and the typical internet found "data", do you have any aquaria experience? Just curious

FWIW RGB is a resident and I myself know a ton of Hawaiians that are not in favor of said bill. Don't play it out like he's the only one.