Reefs.org Forums

[Rook]

By far the worst aspect is that, despite the significant lack of activity and posting over there, the few posts and threads that do exist have severe inaccurate information in them, some of which being posted by mofib bod members. Once I tried to post a correction to the information, but unfortunately I was banned by the dictator. I wish I would not have wasted my time there the last couple of years.

[mwp]

The amount of BOD members who've "left" the organization voluntarily over the past couple years is pretty darn surprising and in my opinion, very telling.

[mwp]

As if you thought this story would actually have an end...MOFIB's credibility as an organization still continues to flounder. My user account has never been restored despite the unilateral deletion by a board member, but since I am the actual founder of the organization I still continue to be filled in on the happenings.

In the latest news...it sounds like there hasn't been a board meeting in months, that most board members have been fundamentally absent, and now the hardly surprising news posted today, which has Stephen Kennedy (the person responsible for deletion of my user account and countless other bouts of harassment and questionable dealings) reached out to a former board member. The email, as reported by this board member, reads:

Andy,
i would like to take over ownership of these domains. marinebreeder.org and .com

Please let me know if I can take them.

Thanks
Steve

To give a history, these domains are the domains that Stephen Kennedy, years ago, did personally register and then ultimately donated to the organization...although they were at the root cause of many of the initial problems here as they were withheld from the organization for some time in a private account by board member John Lauth. Eventually, after my forced ejection from the board, these domains were placed in the corporate account, where they do in fact belong as they were donations to the organization.

So why, years later, does a board member feel a need to write old board members in an attempt to "take over ownership" of organization property? This is truly no different than a board member saying "I would like to take over ownership of the MOFIB Bank Account"....this is a board member outright requesting and attempting to procure corporate assets.

It almost doesn't even matter WHY...the very simple truth is that it the never-ending inability for past boards to deal with problem board members like Stephen Kennedy has ensured that MOFIB as an organization would remain a toxic entity that I am now embarrassed to even be associated with. One can only assume that at minimum, Mr. Kennedy is attempting to "take back his toys" and go home, but in reality it is far more likely that Mr. Kennedy sees value in these domains for his own personal gain (afterall, they have half a decade of links pointing to them...any new venture under the "Marine Breeding" domain cluster has an instantly massive traffic base and relevancy). So in truth, these domains have great value, but there's no realistic reason to desire them at all unless you are attempting to do something new with them.

It is sad that so much of the membership has been driven off, so much of the board members have dropped the ball, that this organization is so fundamentally mismanaged, and that in the end, a band of hobbyists have destroyed the good will this organization originally created. This is hobbyist-run drama at it's very worst, and seriously adds credence to the many external voices who now appear very wise to avoid dealing with most hobbyists. This is a massive setback, fostered by the greed and corruption of the few. And the average participant has no clue it's even going on.

[mwp]

It would seem that this latest round of mess goes way beyond just one BOD member trying to procure corporate assets and "make them his".

We have ongoing abuses of power by the same old moderators who abused countless other members..for example, this cherry by Christian Hoffman, one of many "leaders" who should have been pushed out of the organization eons ago:

First of you have no idea what your talking about, you didnt ask for clarrification you just figured ill do this.

You are playing politics so you rthread was removed, I dont panda to BOD either so as a lead moderator i moderated your post, got an issue with it figure out a worth while arguement.

Given you need to have clarification of posting abilities of messages, if you post this anywhere on the internet you will be banned from MOFIB, this is your first and final warning.

Christian

Yes, the person in question was playing politics by notifying the membership that a BOARD MEMBER was trying to "take over" corporate assets.

Then there's this doozy...It has basically come to light that there has been a long standing attempt to completely close MOFIB as an illinois corporation and then reconstitute it as a new corporation in Texas. Arguably there maybe at some point was some reasoning to do this...but the reality is that when a portion of the BOD is conspiring to take the corporation that they have a fiduciary responsibility to, and to close it out, selling all the assets to a NEW corporation that these BOD members aim to start up in a new state with new bylaws and what not...well...that doesn't sound like anything "good". There is a fundamental problem of mismanagement and abuse that has been going on for years now..stemming all the way back to when I as the founder was "thrown out" and the members were told that I resigned.

To be fair, I had already been told of these efforts that considered the "re-incorporation" of MOFIB last week, and I certainly weighed in. The reality is that the current BOD has a fiduciary responsibility to "right" the ship that they've run aground...instead they aim to strip the ship of the few valuable parts and throw those into a NEW ship. Here's how this is being publicly spun to the few remaining members:

MOFIB is moving forward with some administrative changes to assure the organization's continued success and survival. We currently face several serious issues that need to be addressed:

Illinois State Taxes have been unpaid for several years
MOFIB has failed to attain 501c3 tax status as a non-profit
Illinois has passed a law that makes donations to groups like ours very costly to the donors
This same law precludes us from earning money through affiliate programs


In essence, MOFIB is currently dead in the water. We owe back taxes, and can't escape that, but we have no way to solicit the donations that keep us alive. Companies simply won't donate or support organizations in Illinois due to the costs. Over the last six months, your Board of Directors has been working out a solution. The solution is:

MOFIB moves the corporate offices to a new state, in this case, we have chosen Texas as the most friendly option
Under this new corporate structure, MOFIB applies for the 501c3 status we should have had before
Under this new structure, the bylaws are revised and simplified
MOFIB then closes out the Illinois corporation, paying all due taxes and fees, including late fees


We are sorry this condition occurred and, while we can blame it on previous boards, it was ultimately a failure of your elected directors that got us here. We feel it's also the responsibility of the same elected body to get us out. And we are almost finished with the process. We just need your help for the final steps.

This month, you will be asked to vote to approve this move as well as the new bylaws. It is important that all eligible MOFIB members take part in this vote. Essentially, a Yes vote means you support the board's decisions and the moves to bring MOFIB around. A No vote means you want MOFIB to remain as is, and likely have it die a final and embarrassing, death. Please know that your elected board has worked hard to arrange this solution, and that we feel it is the only viable option to keep our organization alive. We are excited by the prospects and expect that most members will vote yes and support this organization as we regroup and move forward.

Thank you for your continued support.

The truth is this - MOFIB needs to just die that final embarassing death. Why should these board members, who did nothing to build this organization in the first place, and who admit that it is THEIR FAILURE that caused this current mess, why should these board members be voted to "strip the carcass" and run away with what little value remains?

Of course, we are all left wondering what has happened to MOFIB's MONEY..who walked away with that? It is my contention that the domains and website files be given to an organization like the MBI or even MASNA who can simply keep the website alive in an archival form..where the good data persists, the domains which are necessary for third party links to old data are still active and working, but EVERYONE walks away from the table and moves on with life in new directions. Since NO ONE involved is willing to play fair, by the rules, let alone by the laws, everyone should forfeit. Yes, that is the true and only solution at this point. Hell, let's be honest...I put in 95% of the work to get MOFIB to the point of incorporation, and I did 95% of the work right up until I was thrown out for catching people with their hands in the cookie jar..but in all the subsequent discussion, not once has there even been an acknowledgement that maybe MOFIB ran best when I ran it as a benevolent dictatorship, so maybe I would be the actual best candidate to receive everything I put in? Nope...that logic isn't there, and frankly I wouldn't want the responsibility of overseeing MOFIB again, so truly, the best thing to do is to GIVE the website files and domains to a neutral third party who aggrees to keep it alive and pay the meager hosting and domain fees associated with that, and we ALL collectively walk away from the table.

That is the ONLY fair way to go forward. Transfer out the domains and website files, pay whatever money is owed to the state, whatever money remains goes to a non-profit aquarium organization, and things are complete. Everyone loses.

[Rook]

I'm surprised they are still around. Does anyone even post there anymore? They should just dissolve and contribute the data from the website and the domains to MASNA.

[Rook]

Did you see this?

http://www.mofibinternational.com/

It appears a new coup and attempt to misappropriate the assets of Mofib is well underway. Interesting names that are being dropped on this new webpage. Is this some form of attempt of SPK or others to take the website away from the members?

[Thales]

If you set up a new account on MOFIB and log in, you can read all the hidden forums...the BOD and Officers private forum and the Moderator committee forum. I have browsed it a bit and I hope they work out all their issues soon.

[SeahorseWhisperer_]

Thales, I have been trying to fix MOFIB for a year. Now, we have a security breach. Strong work, I guess.

I still cannot figure out why it is so important to you and others that MOFIB is shut down?

[SeahorseWhisperer_]

Thales, I have the coolest frogfish spawning. I cant post them on MBI because they are from the aquarium where I volunteer. If I talk the guys into shutting down MOFIB, can we post here, and will you call off the personal attacks?

[Thales]

Suzy, please leave me out of it - no personal attacks from me. Actually no attacks of any kind. I don't think about mofib much at all and wish you only the best.

[SeahorseWhisperer_]

OK.

There are no assets for anyone to get.

You can take the bills you guys left though.

The previous group of people really didn't care about breeding or the website, they just want drama.

I still hope we can meet one day. I hope you won't be too jealous when you see our new world class facility! We got the cutest river otters from Riverhead New York, and I am hoping we can get some cephalopods too!

[mwp]

Thales, I have been trying to fix MOFIB for a year. Now, we have a security breach. Strong work, I guess.

What does this mean?

I still cannot figure out why it is so important to you and others that MOFIB is shut down?

Because it has become a highly toxic entity. And the reality is that every person suggesting that a shut down is the best course of action seems to be someone who first, long before you ever came along, tried to stop this mess, or tried to save the org from itself. Creating some new organization on the ashes of the old fools no one, and as I told you privately, was at minimum an extreme conflict of interest and a breach of fiduciary responsibility. Put simply, you as a board member have a duty to put MOFIB first. In your scheming to offload MOFIB to some new corporation that you've gone and founded, you are not trying to fix MOFIB...it is YOU who is actually actively pursuing the shut down of MOFIB and, as I see it, the swindling of MOFIB's assets to a new corporation that you've started.

If you wanted to go start your own breeding organization with Jeff and others, you should have resigned your posts as MOFIB board members and just gone to start the new venture. Instead, you've mastermind a scheme to offload the assets of MOFIB into your new organization, where you aim to strip members of their voting rights but will continue to take their money (but you haven't told them that in your public comments). Of course, you also haven't told them that you "resigned" as a board member and have then somehow "taken it back"???

You also fail to understand that the MOFIB culture problem is systemic and part of the leadership. There's ZERO issues with Illinois law here Suzy....it's 100% an issue of leadership and an indifference to the laws ,bylaws, and the duty you have to follow them. Frankly, I find the bemoaning of the laws and such troubling, because for the most part, if you just do what is right ANYWAYS those rules and laws would be of little issue. So the way I see it, the problems of MOFIB's culture are going to follow you no matter what state, and what form of organization you wind up trying next.

And that is why the best way forward is to leave MOFIB behind. I had a page long list of the reasons I incorporated MOFIB (and yes, I am the one who took half a day off to go file the paperwork myself), but there is only one reason that is relevant to the topic at hand. What I wanted to safeguard against was the loss of the members priceless public contributions. By incorporating MOFIB, the website, and the responsibility of maintaining this data repository, was no longer the responsibility of one person (me). It would no longer live or die at the whim of one person. It allows for MOFIB to belong to no one and yet belong to everyone (the members).

While MOFIB's leadership has been largely reprehensible, the actual MEMBERS (and I'm not talking "paid member" BS, I'm talking anyone who contributes to the breeding discussions) have created a valuable repository of breeding information for the world. That was a goal that has succeeded despite the endless failures of the leadership (although you are now really seeing how badly you can cripple an organization before it dies). The truth is that the MOFIB website, the public facets of it, are reference in many websites and hard print publications. Of course this may not have occurred to you, but even simply changing the domain name severs every link to that information.

Since it is crystal clear to most of us that MOFIB's leadership cannot be fixed, any perpetuation of MOFIB as some new entity or new leadership is bound to fail. Any attempts to re-privatize MOFIB will at minimum tick someone off. That is why I've proposed simply getting right with the state, then offloading the digital assets (domains, database, website files) to a more stable organization who can maintain them in an archival state. To do this kills all the politics because no one participates going forward. Afterall, let's be blunt.

If MOFIB is "just a website", how ironic is it that one person can build and and maintain an entire organizations website (and I'm not talking about MOFIB), yet an entire group of SEVEN people can't even keep the darn MOFIB website running?

EVERYONE wants to be a leader. EVERYONE wants recognition. NO ONE wants to actually sit and get the job done. Afterall...MOFIB is how far behind on it's taxes? No one ever thought maybe that issue should simply get resolved? That one person should actually just be responsible for getting it fixed. No, instead, the latest solution is to take the organization's assets and run away with them to a new organization in another state?

MOFIB is dead, and frankly, any new incarnation you guys aim to create isn't gonna have the blessing of too many people...which means it's dead too. Truly, the best way forward is to MOVE ON. That means the plan I've outlined above. Archive the website with a neutral third party like MASNA. After making right with the state, if there's anything left, choose a neutral charity and donate the funds. And lock the door behind you.

[Snailman]

Did you see this?

http://www.mofibinternational.com/

It appears a new coup and attempt to misappropriate the assets of Mofib is well underway. Interesting names that are being dropped on this new webpage. Is this some form of attempt of SPK or others to take the website away from the members?

It doesn't work for me. It does go to suzynrob me.com account.

[Checker]

OK.

There are no assets for anyone to get.

You can take the bills you guys left though.

The previous group of people really didn't care about breeding or the website, they just want drama.

I still hope we can meet one day. I hope you won't be too jealous when you see our new world class facility! We got the cutest river otters from Riverhead New York, and I am hoping we can get some cephalopods too!

and what bill did he leave? assuming you are talking about Thales since your post was the next one after his?

[Ummfish]

OK.

There are no assets for anyone to get.

You can take the bills you guys left though.

The previous group of people really didn't care about breeding or the website, they just want drama.

The organization was in the black when I left with thousands of dollars in cash in the bank. There was also an awful lot of fund-raising after I left that looked to be pretty successful. Plus, there are still members who have paid dues and a lot of people who didn't realize that they had to cancel their subscriptions before the yearly charge for memberships was taken out if they didn't want to renew. What happened to all that money?

Let me tell you straight: When I left the organization in May 2010, there was enough money in the accounts ($2,992.68) to have covered MOFIB's routine monthly expenses (~$116.07 per month on average when I left) for all the months since and still have some money left over, even if MOFIB had not taken in another single cent after I left. Even if you all had done nothing whatsoever except show good judgement and due conservation with the organization's money there should still be money left. All you had to do, Suzy, was to come up with some extra money to cover events like MACNA.

So, what happened between May 2010 and now? This is why the books are supposed to be published for the membership to examine. When things don't make sense, the members should have the ability to go back and find out where it all went wrong. I haven't looked at what MOFIB has published since I renounced my membership, but I know that I published financial reports to the membership every month that I was the treasurer. Was that duty not continued after I left? If not, why not?

So, given that my reputation is one of the ones that you are including in your accusations, Suzy, can you please explain what happened to all the money? From what I have heard, MOFIB stopped publishing the books quite a while ago. It's no wonder that money seems to have disappeared. But if that's the case, it has nothing to do with all us "drama seekers."

If you cannot back up your accusations then I expect an apology. You can make that apology right here, please.

[Checker]

OK.

There are no assets for anyone to get.

You can take the bills you guys left though.

The previous group of people really didn't care about breeding or the website, they just want drama.

The organization was in the black when I left with thousands of dollars in cash in the bank. There was also an awful lot of fund-raising after I left that looked to be pretty successful. Plus, there are still members who have paid dues and a lot of people who didn't realize that they had to cancel their subscriptions before the yearly charge for memberships was taken out if they didn't want to renew. What happened to all that money?

Let me tell you straight: When I left the organization in May 2010, there was enough money in the accounts ($2,992.68) to have covered MOFIB's routine monthly expenses (~$116.07 per month on average when I left) for all the months since and still have some money left over, even if MOFIB had not taken in another single cent after I left. Even if you all had done nothing whatsoever except show good judgement and due conservation with the organization's money there should still be money left. All you had to do, Suzy, was to come up with some extra money to cover events like MACNA.

So, what happened between May 2010 and now? This is why the books are supposed to be published for the membership to examine. When things don't make sense, the members should have the ability to go back and find out where it all went wrong. I haven't looked at what MOFIB has published since I renounced my membership, but I know that I published financial reports to the membership every month that I was the treasurer. Was that duty not continued after I left? If not, why not?

So, given that my reputation is one of the ones that you are including in your accusations, Suzy, can you please explain what happened to all the money? From what I have heard, MOFIB stopped publishing the books quite a while ago. It's no wonder that money seems to have disappeared. But if that's the case, it has nothing to do with all us "drama seekers."

If you cannot back up your accusations then I expect an apology. You can make that apology right here, please.

Take a screen shot, lawyers love screen shots

[SeahorseWhisperer_]

Just FYI. Do you guys realize you have been trying to shut down this breeders site for almost 3 years? It is not for me to tell anyone how to spend their time, of course. It just seems odd that so much energy is put into this endeavor. But, in the few years I have been involved in this org, I must admit, I think you are all rucking futs. Not just those trying to shut it down from the outside, all of you. So many huge egos, distrust and disdain. But, maybe that is the nature of www communication. I still think you guys would like each other if you were able to sit down over a beer summit...

Did you see this?

http://www.mofibinternational.com/

It appears a new coup and attempt to misappropriate the assets of Mofib is well underway. Interesting names that are being dropped on this new webpage. Is this some form of attempt of SPK or others to take the website away from the members?

No, "coup". I was just screwing around, and I made a quick webpage on my imac. If you haven't seen how easy the iweb software is, you need to. Even a blonde grandma can make a webpage in mere minutes. I was just messing around, and I thought I could show the guys how we could possibly update the website. I thought they would be the only to ever see it. But, no worries. They hated it too.

When I first read this, I was insulted to be accused of stealing your "assets". I make a 6 figure salary, and my workaholic husband makes twice what I do. But, after I thought about it, it now just makes me giggle. I am going to spend hours of my life to "misappropriate the assets" of MOfib or I could just pick up an extra shift and make more in one hour than the site is worth?

[SeahorseWhisperer_]

OK.

There are no assets for anyone to get.

You can take the bills you guys left though.

The previous group of people really didn't care about breeding or the website, they just want drama.

The organization was in the black when I left with thousands of dollars in cash in the bank. There was also an awful lot of fund-raising after I left that looked to be pretty successful. Plus, there are still members who have paid dues and a lot of people who didn't realize that they had to cancel their subscriptions before the yearly charge for memberships was taken out if they didn't want to renew. What happened to all that money?

Let me tell you straight: When I left the organization in May 2010, there was enough money in the accounts ($2,992.68) to have covered MOFIB's routine monthly expenses (~$116.07 per month on average when I left) for all the months since and still have some money left over, even if MOFIB had not taken in another single cent after I left. Even if you all had done nothing whatsoever except show good judgement and due conservation with the organization's money there should still be money left. All you had to do, Suzy, was to come up with some extra money to cover events like MACNA.

So, what happened between May 2010 and now? This is why the books are supposed to be published for the membership to examine. When things don't make sense, the members should have the ability to go back and find out where it all went wrong. I haven't looked at what MOFIB has published since I renounced my membership, but I know that I published financial reports to the membership every month that I was the treasurer. Was that duty not continued after I left? If not, why not?

So, given that my reputation is one of the ones that you are including in your accusations, Suzy, can you please explain what happened to all the money? From what I have heard, MOFIB stopped publishing the books quite a while ago. It's no wonder that money seems to have disappeared. But if that's the case, it has nothing to do with all us "drama seekers."

If you cannot back up your accusations then I expect an apology. You can make that apology right here, please.

Mr Fish, can I call you Umm, or would you rather we stay on a less personal basis?

I have no idea what was done when you were in the BOD. I just see now what was not done. I don't think there would have been any taxes due, but I think there may now be penalties for not filing taxes all those years before me. I dunno. I dont have access to any of that stuff. But, you have a new website. You may want to consider those things.

[SeahorseWhisperer_]

Take a screen shot, lawyers love screen shots

This is a weird post. You are going to sue me because.....?

We have never met in person, and I dont believe we have ever spoken on the WWW, but I have seen your posts around, and I was under the impression that you represented Reed Mariculture? I must admit, I know little about marketing practices. Threatening to sue someone who buys your products seems odd, though. And, there may be others who peruse this thread in the future, and they may just want to breed fish, and quit all these www temper tantrums. But, you know your market audience.

Guys, I really am not sure if your mission is best for the breeding community. Closing down MOFIB and creating hostility does not promote your website well, IMO. There are many better ways.

3 years? Really?

Before you begin the gang attacks on me and continue your www temper tantrums, I do want you to know I am reconsidering my association with any internet forums. There is so much more quality information on google scholar, and personal communication with breeders in the hobby who are not into this weird competition and ego fest. I am a becoming a better breeder, and I am having some successes. Instead of these unproductive waste of energies, why not promote real information exchange about the passion? Do you really want to promote breeding and the advanced portion of the hobby? It seems that a lot of energy is being used to push people away from all forums, and not just MOFIB.

[Ummfish]

I have no idea what was done when you were in the BOD. I just see now what was not done. I don't think there would have been any taxes due, but I think there may now be penalties for not filing taxes all those years before me. I dunno. I dont have access to any of that stuff. But, you have a new website. You may want to consider those things.

Oddly enough, there are large resources available of what was done and not done. They are called "meeting minutes" and "board of directors forums." During my time, one of the directors consulted a CPA whose advice was that the corporation yearly income was not yet enough to require filing. I, and the rest of the directors, acted under that advice until the organization felt the need to try to make 501(c)3 status, at which time we began to get back taxes ready to file because you need several years of tax returns to show the IRS when applying for that status. That's about the time I left.

Corporate taxes during my time would have been $0.00 based on corporate income. Interest on $0.00 is $0.00. Penalties for not filing in a year when you owe $0.00 in taxes is $0.00.

So, Thales left the BODs before I did. Rook lasted a little, but not much, longer. Matt was kicked out before my time. What the hell bills are you talking about?

And I still expect that apology.