Reefs.org Forums

[Caterham]

Naesco,

Thanks so much for your contributions to this thread.

Unfortunately, with absolutely zero past or current involvement in the trade of marine ornamentals there are some folks here is this community that might take your comments somewhat lightly.

I respect your efforts and hope that you continue to stay involved. All good teams have people cheering for them on the sidelines, out of play.

Warmest regards

[naesco]

As usual Catherham you have added nothing to this thread.

[GreshamH]

As usual Catherham you have added nothing to this thread.

What do you think Mr Clipperton's view is on Catherham?

[seamaiden]

Neither Mr. nor Mrs. Clipperton will speak with me.

The greater solution is to support third world coastal dwellers and make the reefs something of value to them, thus getting the people at the source to protect that from which their livelyhoods stem. The lessor solution is to further restrict the importation of goods that are supporting coastal dwellers thus forcing them further into destructive practices such as logging and commercial food fishing.

Dave

Ah, THANK YOU! So few people seem to hear what I'm preaching about with this.
"We have to keep it pristine!"
"For whom?"
"For us!"
"What about the people who, you know, live there?"

[nemo24]

How are the Clippertons doing, anybody know ?

[cortez marine]

We saw so many...and tons of jumbo broodstock all over the place. You know, the kind you don't even think about collecting.
They get really big, like a passer and get well over a foot long.
We saw hundreds and hundreds more . They were fine last I saw them.
For the bucket full that of fish that made it here....I don't even know if anyone is supposed to know about it, admit they know about it or even discuss it.
Steve

[nemo24]

Enough said I guess, sounds like they have grown to require a bigger bucket, great!

[Terra Ferma]

I agree with Clipperton. News like this only hurts industry and our hobby.
I recently read somewhere that Obama is concerned about the reefs in the Indonesian area.
When he sends Obamites to explore this area and our industry/hobby they will report to him many negative issues. Sadly for the most part these matters can be addressed and should be addressed by industry who has the most to lose.
Failure to address the ongoing problems will only result in government involvement in our industry/hobby.
Begin at the beginning.
1. Solve the use of cyanide.
2. Solve the issue with the BG. This surely is a simple task as it involves one species and one area.
3. Implement a unsuitable species list USL.

I firmly believe that industry must organize itself on both sides of the oceans, both buyer and supplier.
I am afraid that time is not on our side.

My little non-informed Canadian pal, Clipperton is the fish in question, not a person you can agree with

You still have not gotten the clue politics really has no place in this forum.......must be you're getting old

And just because I can't let it slip by, it's BC, not BG

Wrong! There is a John Clipperton, and English privateer, whom the atoll was named after. However, he did pass in 1722. Surely he has modern day descendants.

[GreshamH]

I agree with Clipperton. News like this only hurts industry and our hobby.
I recently read somewhere that Obama is concerned about the reefs in the Indonesian area.
When he sends Obamites to explore this area and our industry/hobby they will report to him many negative issues. Sadly for the most part these matters can be addressed and should be addressed by industry who has the most to lose.
Failure to address the ongoing problems will only result in government involvement in our industry/hobby.
Begin at the beginning.
1. Solve the use of cyanide.
2. Solve the issue with the BG. This surely is a simple task as it involves one species and one area.
3. Implement a unsuitable species list USL.

I firmly believe that industry must organize itself on both sides of the oceans, both buyer and supplier.
I am afraid that time is not on our side.

My little non-informed Canadian pal, Clipperton is the fish in question, not a person you can agree with

You still have not gotten the clue politics really has no place in this forum.......must be you're getting old

And just because I can't let it slip by, it's BC, not BG

Wrong! There is a John Clipperton, and English privateer, whom the atoll was named after. However, he did pass in 1722. Surely he has modern day descendants.

Um yah, correct in context to this post

And that would be " There was a John Clipperton, an English privateer, whom the atoll was named after....." if your gonna correct some one at least get it right

[Rascal]

Clipperton angels do indeed grow large, and surprisingly still look almost as attractive at 18" as their smaller counterparts. One thing I recall is that, regardless of size, their numbers were fairly evenly dispersed across a reef that is more defined by depth than anything else. There is certainly no shortage of broodstock and recruitment seems to be very low, as very few individuals were identified during the times I was there.

That said, my concern for these particular fish is that their population is so restricted by the sheer size of the island that they are inherently vulnerable to overfishing. I make absolutely NO implications here that Steve's bucket full of fish had any impact in this regard. My far greater consternation plays out with the commercial fishing fleet that apparently has a growing presence around the island.

If there is a serious interest by anyone on this forum in anything relating to Clipperton Island, I would suggest exploring some of the information, though limited, available on the internet. Steves fish have garnered quite a bit of interest here and, though far from an expert, I would argue that there is a much larger story.

Butch

[aquaticvet1]

This senseless " bucket full " of fish is one of the reasons we need change in this industry.

[Snailman]

This senseless " bucket full " of fish is one of the reasons we need change in this industry. These Clippertons should be made the poster child of wrong in this industry, I will do my best to accomplish that. I am digging in for confirmation but from what is rumored the majority or all are DEAD.

Who killed them?

[Fish_dave]

I think that we could come up with several problems of this industry that would make a better poster child than the mis-naming of some 40 odd fish.

Dave

[aquaticvet1]

Just do what you think is best.

I will go my own way and Kevin will continue to speak with those in Washington,D.C. that intend to clean this mess up for us......

[Rascal]

Race -

Always one to derail the topic. Always one to serve your own agenda. Never one to exercise subtlety or cunning. Instead, if you truly have some insight as to the status of these Holocanthids, why not be less Obama-like and answer the question?

Butch

[aquaticvet1]

Well Butch, as an educated and trained animal CSI for animal related crimes within the state of Wisconsin and almost FEMA, I tend not to commit until I have all the facts.

[Rascal]

Race -

You said '...but from what is rumored the majority or all are DEAD. ' Then you stated 'I tend not to commit until I have all the facts."

These two statements are blatantly inconsistent with each other, and I will say again that it is obvious that you are trying to serve your own agenda. Thank you for reminding us about your education background because that indeed gets lost with the way you communicate here.

[aquaticvet1]

I am just looking for the facts.

I did not start this thread, I am just a concerned reader following up. With my background, investigating such events and people is what I do. Maybe that explains a few things.

[dizzy]

The fish would have been better off in the ocean if things were not going to be done correctly. Not sure who would argue with that.

By the way, I did not start this thread, I am just a concerned reader following up.

Race please give us an estimate of the percentage of the fish that Live Aquaria sells.............. that end up being better off than if they were left in the ocean.
Thanks Mitch

[aquaticvet1]

Mitch I have done that before right here on this board. At LiveAquaria and every step of the way too many are dying. I struggle arguing for the hobby but I am still commited to doing it. I sent one of my veterinarians to wholesalers in LA and he was so distraught that he quit my business and left the hobby forever. He became an antihobby advocate. That was not my intention.

Back to the Clippertons please.