Reefs.org Forums

[aquaticvet1]

You are entitled to your opinion Dave and can live in denial about ReeferMadness and Blue Zoo Aquatics and the ownership and supply connection of both to PAF ( Pacific Aqua Farms ). I guess only the future will tell how ignorant your customers are and how well you can convince them that it does not matter.

People should purchase where they can get the most healthy livestock and from a company they feel is leveling the playing field for all. There is absolutely no question that Quality Marine is right now the best supplier of healthy livestock which is why all of us with significant money at stake have migrated to them as our first line supplier. Because QM limits our ability to purchase from them we do use other suppliers including PAF in the past. Money is money and it should be spent wisely on healthy specimens and with a company that treats customers fairly.

I might add that others including SDC and ERI have offered to do dropshipping for LiveAquaria. Eric Cohen gave me a personal tour of his facility and told me " We would love to do all your dropshipping for you , anytime you want to move to us, please let me know ". At that time they were also dropshipping for Pet Solutions. Must be a change of heart I am not aware of, if so I will further limit my purchases from SDC.

Eric, since you were concerned about inventories and supply lists with QM , any comments about our discussion a while back about your supply lists matching those of TheMarineCenter.com,---------------------- an Etailer ?

[JennM]

Wow. What a self-serving pissing match this thread has turned into.

Jenn

[ontfish10]

Well Jen, they don't have Naesco to beat up on any more--so they do it to each other. And, it's fun to watch a pissing contest between two skunks! Are we still on topic?

[dizzy]

I think it's educational.

[sdcfish]

People should purchase where they can get the most healthy livestock and from a company they feel is leveling the playing field for all. There is absolutely no question that Quality Marine is right now the best supplier of healthy livestock which is why all of us with significant money at stake have migrated to them as our first line supplier. Because QM limits our ability to purchase from them we do use other suppliers including PAF in the past. Money is money and it should be spent wisely on healthy specimens and with a company that treats customers fairly.

I might add that others including SDC and ERI have offered to do dropshipping for LiveAquaria. Eric Cohen gave me a personal tour of his facility and told me " We would love to do all your dropshipping for you , anytime you want to move to us, please let me know ". At that time they were also dropshipping for Pet Solutions. Must be a change of heart I am not aware of, if so I will further limit my purchases from SDC.

Eric, since you were concerned about inventories and supply lists with QM , any comments about our discussion a while back about your supply lists matching those of TheMarineCenter.com,---------------------- an Etailer ?

First of all, I was not concerned about the inventory link of Quality Marine to the etailers, which I was simply responding to OC Aquatic's question about it. We all know that etailers have the same link to the "Real Time" inventory as do the retailers. I don't even think I mentioned having an opinion on it...but just said it would be up to the retailers to decide. Not sure why Kevin jumped all over that when I never even mentioned Live Aquaria.

Second of all, don't believe QM has "Absolutely the best quality"....simply not true, but I will say that a few customers that I have recently spoken to have commented a mixed bag of results. Some good, some not so good, but really only hear a few things here and there. I am sure that goes the same for everyone dealing in livestock. I can only gage our quality on the majority of success reports we get every day. Check out our website and see the recent testimonies from our customers....it's been exciting:) We are a new company over the last year and it feels like we have been re-born

It's true what you say about the tour I gave you as a good customer, I would do the same for anyone coming to SDC. At that time, a few years ago, I was interested in taking the business away from QM, but we definately have had a change of heart over the last couple years and completely stopped drop shipping for etailers. I believe we have had the better end of the deal all along anyway and I think you guys believe so too, having QM handle your drop shipments and still get to buy the high-end stuff from us too sent directly to your beautiful facility in Wisconsin for your divers den. We have turned away dozens of drop ship requests and will only drop ship for a retailer that supports us and averages $400 per week in sales. That has been our policy for a while now and will continue to consider the retailer at heart first and foremost. That is only one part of the many things we have changed to support the retail customer mentioning the birth of our "Customer Appreciation Specials" each week.

Careful about the comment about The Marine Center....Kevin might come down on you for starting another Rumor Mill Saga! They have been closed for I don't know how long and we never had anything more than a common business relationship albeit attempts from our competitors to harm us with this type of rumor anyway. Their business model was very similar to yours....but I think they preferred to hold most of their livestock themselves before shipping it to the customer. Randy was a freak like that. Because I was not really involved in Marine Center's business with us, I am not really sure if they used our stock list as a guide or not. I know he had some awesome sources for rare fish back in the day. Funny how people still use their website and pricing as a guide no matter how out dated it has been. No idea why they still have the site up, but I wouldn't count Randy out...he's a scrappy fellow:)

Regards,

Eric

[aquaticvet1]

I am in no way attempting to bad mouth SDC, not in the least. Just want all of my dealings to be public and above board. I do not conduct business on the sly , never have, never will.

You can speak to Kevin about your death rates compared to QM. I will let that rest for now but please contact Kevin in the next week about our recent quality of specimens from SDC.

Thank you, Race

[JennM]

I think it's educational.

Indeed. It is, indeed.

Jenn

[cortez marine]

It is educational...especially for members of the public.
However, it is also promotional....in fact economic determinism clearly drives the whole thing.
Self promotion in the guise of public interest discussion is an old, old public relations ploy.
The big hamburger chains do it, Walmart, Home Depot, soft drink companies ie.

The difference here is only one sells to the public and as such has the chance to have access to it and become relevant.
SDC and PAF cannot ...er...do not sell direct to the public. They could as its easy, super easy to invent thin barriers and semantics to "technically" insulate oneself from the schemes of direct, semi-direct and quasi-direct marketing
From re-reading the thread....PAF and SDC are also responding from insinuations and attacks. Self defense can be excused from the translucent self promotion that hijacked the thread in the first place.
Then again...if one can do it...cannot all?

I want to know...if this is an appropriate forum for self promotion.
Can all of us wholesalers now engage in complimenting ourselves, our staff members, our fish quality, our enlightened policies and procedures, our low death rates, our environmental practices etc.
Can we criticize last weeks shipment from someone else? Can we promote this weeks agenda and stock profile?
Or is this a right accorded only to some?
Steve

[Thales]

It is educational...especially for members of the public.
However, it is also promotional....in fact economic determinism clearly drives the whole thing.
Self promotion in the guise of public interest discussion is an old, old public relations ploy.
The big hamburger chains do it, Walmart, Home Depot, soft drink companies ie.

The difference here is only one sells to the public and as such has the chance to have access to it and become relevant.
SDC and PAF cannot ...er...do not sell direct to the public. They could as its easy, super easy to invent thin barriers and semantics to "technically" insulate oneself from the schemes of direct, semi-direct and quasi-direct marketing
From re-reading the thread....PAF and SDC are also responding from insinuations and attacks. Self defense can be excused from the translucent self promotion that hijacked the thread in the first place.
Then again...if one can do it...cannot all?

I want to know...if this is an appropriate forum for self promotion.
Can all of us wholesalers now engage in complimenting ourselves, our staff members, our fish quality, our enlightened policies and procedures, our low death rates, our environmental practices etc.
Can we criticize last weeks shipment from someone else? Can we promote this weeks agenda and stock profile?
Or is this a right accorded only to some?
Steve

Seems that you have done most of that yourself in this forum over the years.

[cortez marine]

Theres a difference in pushing product and pushing issues is there not?
If its considered one and the same , then its good to know.
That would mean that crass and shameless plugging sales is considered OK.
Sneaking in a plug once in awhile compared to "constant, routine pushing self and product" is very obviously light years apart.
Steve

[aquaticvet1]

Sometimes pushing a product creates an issue. Clippertons are an example.

Sometimes pushing issues creates a product. Cortez Marine is an example.

[bobimport]

WHAT!!! People are promoting themselves here? no never!!! I am shocked that gambling is going on here Rick. Sorry I cant comment more but I an off to Haiti to get the finest live rock and ricordea in the world. Rock that never sees the deck of a boat. Hand picked by Haitian biologists. Screened by US Fish and Wildlife with a microscope and every piece hand picked by me

[cortez marine]

Hes right Bob.
I spent my 3,000 posts pushing product.
The forum here is industry behind the hobby and thats where 2700 of them came from about industry reform.
In another forum,...ie ...were fancy fish are featured, one finds a few dozen featured the really cool fishes we get.
Still many more featuring the project in Papua New Guinea.

But for 2,700 or so, it was all industry reform, the institutionalization of cyanide use, its cover up by eco-industry groups and so on. But....thats on the record here and obvious.

[aquaticvet1]

Kind of like the mother that had 2,700 posts advocating M.A.D.D.----------then got pulled over for drunk driving.

[cortez marine]

Dont look in the mirror when driving .
The constant stream of pretense to the support of quality fish and at the same time poison fish from Manila and Indonesia fish is your strategy, not mine.
Trying to hide the fact by deleting the word "Philippine" from all your P.R. is a long standing industry joke.
When the self professed big players embrace this illegal, unsustainable trade, it makes it harder to reform.
Steve

[bobimport]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[cortez marine]

Tired of traffic?
So am I. [Especially with the S.F. Bay Bridge closed right now.]
Then its not a fact of life or an issue anymore, right?

No one needs to be reminded of the organizations hoping to make hay out of industrys "sustainability issues" as we have seen.
They generally fail, but will keep coming back. Not propelled by belief, but by payroll.

I had always hoped we would rid ourselves of that "nasty little secret" before a really competent organization uses it more effectively to our sorrow.
But if "mums the word".....so be it. Sounds like a good strategy.
OOh...it is the strategy isn't it?
Steve

[aquaticvet1]

Steve,
I suppose your definition of poacher is " one who has choked on a poached egg".

[Fish_dave]

Race, I think that you need to lay off the personal attacks and insults. Steve was attacking an entire industry of which you are but a player in. Your statement to Steve was a personal attack. I don't think that we need that in this forum. You should go back and read some of the other threads that you have posted in, they too often degenerate into personal attacks and some have been closed due to that. I think that you should make an effort to try and post about the industry in general, not attack personally the people in the industry.

This thread should probably be closed, it has degenerated to self promotion and insult throwing.

Dave

[sdcfish]

I can second that motion. Thread should be split or closed....or closed and split

Banana Split....that is my vote:)

Eric