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[Len]

My fish definitely have flukes and I can't remove them, so I decided to dose Prazipro to the reef after having read and heard firsthand accounts of it being invert (and fish) safe. So far, it's had some positive effects, but some fish were too late to save.

I'm dosing at about 2.5mg/l and plan to run the water without carbon and skimming for a week, then do a big water change and add carbon and polyfilter.

Will this be sufficient or should I run a higher dosage? I read Thorney's paper that says I need 5mg for 40 hours to kill everything. Can I simply run 2.5mg for longer, or do I need the stronger concentration to have the lethal dosage? FWIW, I plan on doing a second treatment a week after the water change.

[LargeAngels]

When I use Prazipro I do a 7 day treatment (according to the bottle instructions), 50% water change and then a second dose, then 7 days later a 50% water change.

I've found that one 7 day treatment is not always sufficient.

[Matt_]

Hey Len, we use PraziPro here on a pretty regular basis. I don't do any reading of papers, and I'm not a vet (of course), but I can tell you what our vets prescribe and works on our fish.

We do a 14 day bath at 3mg/L. I want to say (don't quote me on this one!) that skimming does not affect the level of prazi and you can continue it, but if the instructions say otherwise go ahead and follow them. Carbon should be taken off though.

A couple things about Praziquantel--it will raise the pH of your water by a bit when it's first added. This is likely not that big of a deal for your specific case but if you are administering it in, say, a hospital tank with a depressed pH and a detectable level of ammonia, the pH rise will push more of the ammonium to toxic ammonia and can stress the fish even worse. I've also noticed that fishes' appetites tend to diminish a bit when Prazi is added. Tough to to prove or even quantify such a thing but I'd swear by it.

Are you weighing out the prazi in powder form? We usually use a mL or two of 95% ethanol to make a slurry and then dissolve it in DI water. Otherwise it tends to clump up and takes a while to break apart.

[Len]

I used the premixed over-the-counter stuff: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=12098

I mixed it so it was equal to 2.5mg/l. It was totally coral and shrimp safe, but my snails were not happy after 48 hours. My water quality also got pretty bad since I removed all filtration, so I've suspended treatment (carbon and polyfilters are back in). The Prazi worked within hours to deworm my black tang, whose stomach area looks much better now. However, it didn't have enough time to totally remove the fluke from its eyes; one eye still looks cloudy. The Prazi is still in the system, but is being filtered out by the carbon and polyfilter as we speak, so there is still a chance the treatment will help with the one bad eye. But with the water quality going south as fast as it was, I couldn't go skimmer/carbonless anymore. I'm doing a 30% water change friday and another soon.

I may try to catch the tang at night to do a FW bath. The only fluke it seems to have is over that one eye, but it irritates the hell out of him (darts around fast, trying to bat his eye ... his pigmentation is off when he's stressed). Or I may do prazi again (full 7+7 day) when the water quality is more stable.

[Matt_]

I have seen an angel with cloudy eyes after a 14 day prazi treatment, which then subsequently cleared. Think it's possible that the flukes leave a small lesion that takes a while to heal even after they are killed off? You may want to wait a while and just observe, it may get better all on its own.

I never would have been brave enough to try it with corals. Do you mind doing me (and others) a huge favor and listing all inverts in your tank which tolerated the treatment?

[Len]

I don't have many corals or inverts. Cleaner shrimps, Acropora, Montipora, Micromussa, Acantharea, and Cataphyllia all didn't react at all to the medication.

[LargeAngels]

I can almost guarentee that if the black tang has a fluke on his eye it is not the only one, but the only one you can see. These guys are just about impossible to see unless they cover the eyes. FW dips will remove the adults, but doesn't kill the eggs so be prepared for a come back. I have seen so many of these things and they are such a nuisance that I now treat EVERY single fish with Prazipro before it ever gets to any of my tanks.

[Len]

Can Prazi be used at the same time as Cupramine?

[LargeAngels]

I use Prazipro and Cupramine together all the time with no issues. All my new fish go through Prazipro and Cupramine together in QT (2 weeks Prazipro and Cupramine and then 3-4 weeks Cupramine only.) I've also used Maracyn II with Cupramine. Cupramine can turn deadly with some meds and water conditioners.

[Len]

Thanks! I'll do just that (not sure I can QT that long, but 2-3 weeks for sure with Prazi and Cuprimine (and Maracyn 2 if necessary).

[Len]

One additional question: Is there a reason why you run Cupramine for 6 weeks?

[Matt_]

What are you trying to kill with the Cupramine?

You have a Joculator angel, right? Bad combo...

[Len]

Tang + Ich. It'll be done in a QT tank of course.

[Matt_]

Tang + Ich. It'll be done in a QT tank of course.

So you are just treating the tang with cupramine and not your other fish?

Have you considered a hyposalinity or chloroquine phosphate bath instead?

[Len]

I've considered hypo, but I honestly don't know if I'll have the time or patience to monitor the salinity, pH, etc. I don't know anything about chloroquine phosphate.

I've also considered letting him be. His ich seems to have gotten better overnight, but I'd love to be able to try and eradicate it completely from the tank (with this treatment and future qt for all new fish).

[Matt_]

I've considered hypo, but I honestly don't know if I'll have the time or patience to monitor the salinity, pH, etc. I don't know anything about chloroquine phosphate.

I've also considered letting him be. His ich seems to have gotten better overnight, but I'd love to be able to try and eradicate it completely from the tank (with this treatment and future qt for all new fish).

IME it is a lot less work getting the salinity where you want and keeping it there than maintaining a therapeutic copper level. Copper should be tested and adjusted daily as it's volatile in seawater.

I wish I could recommend the CP but it appears there are no OTC sources for it (someone please tell me otherwise!). Shame as it's a really useful tool to eradicate Crypto.

[LargeAngels]

Cupramine is very different from other coppers. I've treated all types of dwarfs (colini, multicolor, flame, potters, multibarr, hybrids, venustus, etc) plus large angels, butterflies, wrasses, etc with no ill affects whatsoever. It is not as toxic and also much more stable and has a very wide affective range so it is not as critical keeping an exact concentration level as others.

I always treat for 6 weeks to be on the safe side.

[glassboxdesign]

Len--How'd it go?

Are you weighing out the prazi in powder form? We usually use a mL or two of 95% ethanol to make a slurry and then dissolve it in DI water. Otherwise it tends to clump up and takes a while to break apart.

Never thought of this--will have to try it, the clumps are a pain...

[jhemdal]

I stopped using ethanol as a solvent for praziquantel. It sure seemed to help dissolve the material, but it had the side-effect of killing off a couple of groups of flashlight fish. The fish would die about 2 days after their dose - with their mouths wide open. It turned out that bacteria was feeding on the ethanol and scavenging the oxygen. Most fish survive that, but the flashlight fish tanks were draped to keep out light, and this apparently limited the gas exhcange in their tanks. Additionally, flashlight fish have a pretty high DO demand. So - we stopped using ethanol as a solvent for all praziquantel treatments, just because it wasn't killing fish in other cases, doesn't mean that they weren't being stressed by the low DO. I press the prazi through women's nylons and into the tank that way - no muss no fuss.....just be sure to turn off your skimmer or you'll end up just pulling it right back out in the foam.

Jay Hemdal

[Matt_]

I stopped using ethanol as a solvent for praziquantel. It sure seemed to help dissolve the material, but it had the side-effect of killing off a couple of groups of flashlight fish. The fish would die about 2 days after their dose - with their mouths wide open. It turned out that bacteria was feeding on the ethanol and scavenging the oxygen. Most fish survive that, but the flashlight fish tanks were draped to keep out light, and this apparently limited the gas exhcange in their tanks. Additionally, flashlight fish have a pretty high DO demand. So - we stopped using ethanol as a solvent for all praziquantel treatments, just because it wasn't killing fish in other cases, doesn't mean that they weren't being stressed by the low DO. I press the prazi through women's nylons and into the tank that way - no muss no fuss.....just be sure to turn off your skimmer or you'll end up just pulling it right back out in the foam.

Jay Hemdal

Jay, I wonder how much ethanol you were using! Did you confirm this theory with DO readings before and after? What were the DO levels, if you took them?

In general I would only use about 1mL of ethanol to do this (~2.5 mL of vodka for you reefers doing the math)--far less than I use on a daily basis on some large reef systems.