Reefs.org Forums

[Raskal311]

This is going to come back and haunt the industry for years to come.

http://www.westhawaiitoday.com/articles ... ocal01.txt

[Gman0526]

So how long before we can't buy anymore YT's?

[Snailman]

There is 100% mortality on fish taken from the ocean...

[jhemdal]

Chris,

Great minds think alike I guess, here is what I just posted on another board:

Just some food for thought - nothing illegal took place (as far as anyone knows or suspects). Every fish taken from the reef is effectively dead as far as the population genetics are concerned, so there is absolutely no difference to the environment between the yellow tang in the trash can, and the one swimming in your aquarium.
Finally, ask yourself, why is a system failure or disease outbreak such a shame when it happens to a home aquarist, yet ellicits such moral outrage (e.g. "its stupid") when it happens to a dealer or collector? Is it the number of fish involved? It shouldn't be - 500 yellow tangs dying in a dealer's hands is no different than 1 yellow tang dying in 500 aquarists hands....the mortality rate of all captive fish is 100%


Jay Hemdal

p.s. - I stole that phrase from a prominent zoo biologist who would use it in making a point about population genetics

[Raskal311]

But do you really think the environmentalist is going to see it that way? This little incident is worth its weight in gold to them.

[GreshamH]

But do you really think the environmentalist is going to see it that way? This little incident is worth its weight in gold to them.

You're not going to change their mindset on this one so does it really count to bring them into this? HI anti MO activists are high in numbers and have far more access to the media then us.

Truth be told hatcheries cull far more fish then that. 600 fish is beans.

[jhemdal]

Gresham,

I agree with the culling issue, at least with FW fish. Certainly supply chain losses are substantial as well. Ah well, "life is like a plate of shrimp" I guess! (uhh, in reference to your avatar).

Jay

[sdcfish]

A shame for sure......but fortunately this does not happen very often. I admit, when I was a shipper in Kona, I had a power failure at the worst time and lost about 80 black durgeon triggers which ended up in the trash can.....only to have some people dig through my trash, open the bags, take photos, then just leave the dead fish lying there in the can to rot and stink up the complex. Man that just pissed me off! They knew of the power failure in our complex and went digging, ripped open the four layers of bags to expose the "bad" of our industry.....not sure which was worse...the dead fish or them leaving them open to rot.

Now we have the same type of people trying to say that 100% of the fish taken out of the sea will die. Not sure if they say will die in a shorter time than if left in the sea....but it's a "shock - effect" that they are going after.

Jay has a point, that all fish that are harvested are gone, and it doesn't matter one bit what happens next, but I think that some portion of our industry is repeat business and we might not need as many fish if the success rate was higher....and we are improving all the time.

There is a bill in Maui right now, that I might travel to participate in the discussion where they (Snorkel Bob and Rene Umberger) are trying to sneak in a fish inhumane treatment clause within a dog and pet bill. The clauses for inhumane treatment for fish actually are proposed to carry a more stiff fine for people who don't feed their fish every 12 hours or neglect their aquarium....could go to jail for doing just that when beating your dog is a fraction of the violation penalty.

Let's face it....there are some very passionate people out there on both sides that both share a common love for the ocean, but can't seem to come together. Radical opinions and white lies are not uncommon on both sides unfortunately. For me, let the science rule! Leave the regulations up to the scientists and nature will take over. I have much faith in the resource, and having been underwater hundreds of times, I know that we CAN sustainably harvest aquarium fish and do some good for the enviroment, community and society.

My SMART program I truly hope will illeviate many of the concerns that we all should share, and we can finally know that we are working within the guidelines set forth by the scientists. More on that to come....hopefully we can get there before unecessary regulations are implemented by one sided environmentalist groups which only have their interests in mind.

Regards,
Eric

[GreshamH]

Eric I'm glad you just said that bit about the HI Dog/Cat bill. I know many that support it over there and wouldn't if they knew junk like that was being added on.