Reefs.org Forums

[EmilyB]

I don't believe I wanted to encourage continued slaughter, naesco.

I wanted to find out if there could be a nutritional study done on natural foods. Perhaps, this has already been done. I am more to helping the ones we already have, and the ones that will continue to come into the marketplace, regardless.

......

Sorry, I had assumed this forum was about more than just species bans.

[ December 31, 2001: Message edited by: EmilyB ]</p>

[EmilyB]

Example:

My Synchiropus picturatus eat virtually everything.

My Chaetodon melannotus as well, with additions of leather/xenia clippings 'occasionally', mostly because it is fun to watch !!

Getting fish to first take food is one thing, to have the food maintain them, quite another IMO.

My question, or what I am throwing out here I guess is, I feed lots... And a huge variety of foods, including homemade. I likely have 30 or more foods here right now.

To say a fish only eats sponge/whatever is scary. But, at any point, can we figure out what the composition is, nutrient wise etc. ? Could that potentially help these fish survive in our tanks longer, with the ultimate goal, of course, always being how to propagate species, or help to achieve that ?

Just some thoughts.

[naesco]

It is very simple.
Lets talk butterflyfish as an example.
If you had the opportunity of reading some of the threads you noticed that the point was made that certain butterflyfish should not be imported by wholesalers and sold by LFS. They are the ones on the list.
All of the learned authors who you are no doubt familiar with agree on the ranking; not difficult but impossible.
They all rank the fish into at least 3 categories. Good, Difficult and Impossible.
You should be very proud that you are successfully raising your C. Melannotus but you may be surprised to see that it is on the good (easier) list. The second or difficult list is just that. The impossible to keep species are also just that. Because of their peculiar eating requirements, the experts, those reefers who have tried unsuccessfully and some LFS recognize that we should not import these to have them die in our tanks.
There are those who say that we should continue the slaughter of these species because it is the only way to find out eventually what they need to survive.
Others including myself refuse to accept that position and want the slaughter stopped but at the same time allow the entry of the species for those who have the experience, money, facilities and time to experiment with their needs.
We think we know what dendronepthya needs to survive in the wild but we have not been able to duplicate their requirements in our aquaria. The same is true of the beautiful blue and yellow angels that we commonly see in the LFS.
For example to understand the intricate needs of the dendro please see http://masna.org/past-macnas/M12/dendronephthya.htm

[Cappuccino Bay Aquarium]

EmilyB, please dont get discouraged with the responses in this "forum" A few posters are dominating the responses? Yet many many more just read the ideas or thoughts and never respond . {but the questions still have an inpact and get peoples minds thinking?} The voice of this forum {not I}is that killing animals with a 98 death rate is horrible, yet the remaining "hardy " animals with a 90 percent death rate {within one year of collection} is some how wonderfull? or that removing all the red brains off a reef being that they are "hardy" is great? but the thought of removing Dendronepthya {THE MOST ABUNDANT ANIMAL ON THE REEF } is not? I too believe that the greatest area of this hobby of which there needs to be improvment is in the area of nutrition and feeding of our animals. Feeding is as important or of greater importance {with some fish }than water quality, lighting space etc... if more hobbists spent time increasing the survival rate of the average fish ,instead of the few, the reef and the hobby would be better of

[SPC]

Posted by Cappuccino:

if more hobbists spent time increasing the survival rate of the average fish ,instead of the few, the reef and the hobby would be better of

Uh, I think this is fairly obvivious and we have talked about it at great length in this forum. [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] And I am sure that Emily B. is quite capable of deciding for herself which posters to listen to.
Steve

[Cappuccino Bay Aquarium]

Since we are on the topic of feeding......or eating as it may be....If a fish in larval form {for years in some cases}, eats a variety of foods in the form of plankton or zooplankton.....{if its choosey it starves}Why is it that we assume as an adult , that species it must eat only one item to survive{ ie sponge eating Butterfly} This Butterfly did not eat sponge as a floating adrift in the open Sea,larva ? Perhaps, like most of us... it only LIKES the tast of a certain food {Sponge} better then other foods? If we can add the correct FLAVOR to say.Brine shrimp perhaps the butterfly will eat it just the same?

[JeremyR]

<<Since we are on the topic of feeding......or eating as it may be....If a fish in larval form {for years in some cases}, eats a variety of foods in the form of plankton or zooplankton.....{if its choosey it starves}Why is it that we assume as an adult , that species it must eat only one item to survive{ ie sponge eating Butterfly} This Butterfly did not eat sponge as a floating adrift in the open Sea,larva ? Perhaps, like most of us... it only LIKES the tast of a certain food {Sponge} better then other foods? If we can add the correct FLAVOR to say.Brine shrimp perhaps the butterfly will eat it just the same? >>

I don't buy it, at least not in all cases. Look at the rock beauty.. juvies will eat like pigs in the aquarium, but they don't survive to adulthood as the adults grow into obligate sponge eaters. I've seen many rock beauties that ate everything you threw in that died anyways.

[MaryHM]

Everyone, when someone new posts here with a legitimate (and extremely interesting!) question, can we please address their question before we start changing the subject?? [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Emily,

INTRIGUING QUESTION. If I understand correctly, you're saying that the fish are eating sponge because the sponge is what provides the nutrients necessary for that fishes survival, so if we figure out the nutrient composition of their favorite sponge and then determine what portions the fish is utilizing, perhaps we can create a food that will stimulate them to eat AND provide their correct nutritional requirements. (That is by far the longest sentence I've ever constructed. [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] ). I'm not familar enough with current prepared food technology to know whether or not this is already being done. Anyone have a clue??

[EmilyB]

Yes, Mary, in that sentence, or whatever,
[img]images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

you have understood what I was trying to say. A food like sponge...does it not have a nutrient quantity, like say broccoli for humans ? Can a sponge be broken down to it's various nutrients ?