Reefs.org Forums

[lukestro]

I'm sure there are a handful of people in the business, including a few lfs owners, and maybe some up and coming business owners who frequent this place.

As a hobbyist who has an interest into turning it into his business, where do I and others start. I'm learning on my own through books, my own research, and a little from the observation. I learned my economics and business through two years of school, both of which doesn't add up to much in the real world. So, for the last four years or so I've been schooling myself.

The areas I am most lacking in are mentorship and money. I need to learn the tricks of the trade. How did yall start off? Shear courage? Former assets? How can I put it all together and do it with nothing to push off from. Do you specialize in the other pets as well, or are you maintaining a steady business with just the fish trade? I feel like I'm almost dressed up for the party, but no where to go.

This year is my goal. I'm adding the finishing touches to the business proposal for the banks. I'm looking for funds. I just need the advice needed for the initial launch and setup. I need to learn the guts of the trade.

I am also interested in talking with others who may be in the same boat.

Thanks

r

[MaryHM]

My best advice? GET SOME EXPERIENCE!! I highly recommend that you work at an LFS for AT LEAST one year prior to trying it on your own. You will learn what to do, and most importantly what NOT to do!! [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[naesco]

Petophile I too considered getting into the business. What could be better. Making money from the hobby you love.
However, business reality prevaled over the heart.
The reality is that the industry has a short life.
IMO governments will soon step in and ban the collection, wholesale and retail of marine fish, corals and live rock and sand.
Some industy people realize this and are endeavouring to change things but as Mary pointed out in another thread, most LFS will do nothing to change things unless they have too.
Invest your money, time and experience in another venture.
Sorry!

[JeremyR]

As someone in the industry, I would want you to make sure this is what you want to do. Once you open a shop, it ceases to become "fun hobby" and becomes a difficult, cutthroat business. There are many difficult aspects to deal with.. from customers bent on putting sharks in 30 gallon tanks to airline delays to not having a life anymore. If you are going to be an ethical LFS owner, you have to be willing to listen to constant complaints by people who want indo fish when you won't supply them due to the inability to get a cyanide free product. You have to be extremely dedicated.. both in the care of your animals, and in the education of often unwilling to be educated hobbyists. You have to deal with wholesalers who send you garbage, and blame it on everything under the sun but themselves. You also have to be aware that someday a legislative ban could be passed which could affect your livelihood if you aren't prepared for it (IE develop a freshwater clientele and propagate/push propagated animals).

I know it sounds negative. There are days I wish I didn't own an LFS.. but then there are wonderful customers that make it worthwhile.. but this business is only for the most dedicated of people, it cannot be done casually, and you must have a thick skin.

[lukestro]

Thank you all very much for the responses. The advice from people who have been in, and out, of the business is the stuff I need to hear. I don't need to be told that LFSs and pet stores are in the top hundred best businesses to start for 2002 (this is from few books I've read). I need to be told what I'm getting myself into, something that some failed business owners may have overlooked before starting.

I believe that I have the abilities to pull it off, yet am not quite confident in starting right now. I've more to learn, and the economy is a little frightening. I've succeded in starting one business, yet on a much smaller scale, and have had a taste of what its like on the other end of the desk. A good starting point, but not enough.

I have stacks of notes about every LFS/PS I've been in, and as a consumer I know what draws me to particular stores. Unfortunately, I've seen many very bad stores and wonder how they stay afloat. It's confusing to see a store I really like struggle, and another store thrive after their customers are forced to walk through rabbit droppings in order to have their kids pick their favorite least dead fish in the tank.

Another question for store owners, do you feel threatened by reports stating the end of the saltwater fish trade is nigh? Should I factor this in as a serious threat to the industry? I ask for your input because I'm looking at it through different eyes. If its true, I want to know!

This is how I see it, and please if I am wrong, thrash me to pieces so I further know what I am going into.

--> I think that some cracking down may occur, but how will that effect the trade if a few species and suppliers are no longer available? The push for homemade live rock, tank raised fish, etc. would soon change the supply industry. In order for these new "cleaner" suppliers to stay in business, the prices would then come down to reality through competition. A store's supply would still be intact, maybe a little bumpy at worst, and the trade continues through a few different channels. I strongly believe that people are ready to pounce upon this opportunity, if a real crackdown occurs, and in the end the products remain redily available, and quite possibly stronger and healthier. <-- (what am I overseeing?)

Other than that, I am interested in any wisdom, cautions, reality checks yall may have to offer. Also, I'm interested in talking with others considering the same venture.

Going and working at a shop is a good idea, but what's the store owner to think? --> "Hmm, 26, somewhat well educated, married, wanting to work for pennies at a pet store...I know his plan, and why would I mentor this guy only to have him become a potential competitor?" Or, am I just not seeing that I might just be a valuable asset to his business?

I appreciate the feedback. I don't plan on wagering my life's income on a dumb mistake or hindsight. I'm trying to cover all my bases and my rear at the same time before entering into this fairly sizable venture. Any advice is gold at this stage in the game.

Ryan

[newreefman1]

Ryan,
Ive been working on this as well and jumped head first into the project and now have slowed back a bit. Im still moving forwards but just taking my time. Ive always wanted my own fish store but I figured that I couldnt make any money as a LFS and that I didnt want to deal with keeping fish...and keep an inventory...so what did I come up with? A propogation farm....
I think the key to success is to find a niche market and try to master it rather than trying to master a store with 100 niche markets in it. Theres too much error IMO in starting a whole LFS and a large large inventory to maintain...and not just a coral system, theres a fish system too...so now 2 systems and if you add freshwater you now have 3 or more systems....its alot to look after.

In my scenario..I have one system. Corals only.....and I never have to sell retail. Obviously you are going to choose what you WANT to do...but I think picking one part and doing it the best will end up in more success and less headache then trying to do the whole with little experience.

JMHO>

Jason

[lukestro]

Newreefman1,

Thanks for the response. I have been looking into that direction as well but haven't found a way to get the wholesalers or even retailers interests, at least enough interest to break even. Any suggestions on getting them to listen? These guys are inundated(sp?) with offers so the approach is a bit tricky. Have you turned a profit yet? And if not, do you see realistic light at the end off the tunnel for doing so? I'm curious as to what you've invested into this venture compared to what it would have cost you pulling off an entire shop. Am I wrong in thinking your overhead is much lower than a store?

Breeding fish, corals, and whatever else I can master would keep me interested enough to want to get up for work each morning, that is assuming I can make a living on it. Hard work, but for me that beats a cubicle hands down. I'm trying to think of other avenues. A web based business would be very difficult unless you've already made a name of some sort. I see beating out the local competition much easier than trying to do the same on the web. Any thoughts or ideas?

As for a retail store, i'm thinking the chances of survival would triple if I could get a reliable partner to handle reptiles, birds, etc. as creating a store based solely on marine life and supplies would only attract a small segment of the local market. I don't see succeding with just fish, unless I had more money to risk than I have. I've seen many successful marine only stores, but I see the startup taking much longer to build.

How about a gourmet fish food deli/bakery! They have 'em for dogs and cats! All natural goldfish raised on pesticide free flakes, and of course raised in their own individual 25 gallon tanks! Only the best for your petsmart/wallmart bought oscar! Why not? [img]images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

Frustrating. Almost tempting to take over a turn key with established customers...but, then it wouldn't be my own creation.
[img]images/smiles/icon_confused.gif[/img]

Ryan

[Anemone]

Ryan,

As a short-term alternative, you could look for a job as the manager of the marine fish section of an established pet store (not just a fish store), or offer to help out with marine consulting for a freshwater-only store that might like to take a dip in the saltwater side.

Either way, you would make industry contacts, and get an idea on how things are currently done, so you could (in a year or so) decide what you want to do (and could pull off).

Kevin

[newreefman1]

My Business isnt successful yet. Its merely in the building and design phase.

Yes the overhead will be quite a bit lower. We will see once it gets running for sure [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

On a side note, a relative of mine owns a large gourmet pet treat business based in florida and makes a DISGUSTING amount in it [img]images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Theres definately money for good product in that field!

J

[JeremyR]

I always thought that a coffee/donut shop with a bunch of killer aquariums would be cool.. lots of people come in my shop just to gawk anyways.. I've always said I ought to just put some benches down in front of the tanks and sell them food/drink, then I wouldn't have to import/sell livestock anymore or feel guilty when people kill things. Hehe.

[EmilyB]

Oh...my.....gawd....

Can you imagine the weird (er) clientelle [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img] [img]images/smiles/icon_eek.gif[/img]

[Kalkbreath]

Hey ,what do you think a Cappuccino Bay Aquarium is ? "Coffee and Icecream with a splash" Well will be if i ever get it opened......Five months of build out and counting.......
_________________
grand daddy purple pics

[Rover]

Another suggestion is to go with just dog, cat and fish. The dog and cat aren't hard to learn but the profit margins are huge. It would definitely give you a good solid customer base. I guess it depends on the saturation level of your local market though.

Glenn

[lukestro]

Great ideas yall. I can't believe that reefman - making a mint on gourmet doggy treats...You know, the relatives already think its odd for wanting to go into what I want, so can you imagine if I said I wanted to make a pet deli/aromatherapy resort! They would croak. But then again...inheritance=startup costs?......: )

The ideas on managing a store would be great, if I could locate one. If Baltimore was a little closer I'd be loving life.

How bout the prawnography site out there, if it is still there. He takes cooked shrimp, dresses them, and then places them in interesting position and photographs them. Now thats the cutting edge.

No, really, thanks everyone for the input. Any input is good input as I said once before. Any ideas on getting 'in' with the people who make the business, maybe on the net somewhere? The idea of working at a store is a good one for getting to know the public.

Ryan

[Mac]

There was a fellow by the name of Todd on the Reefkeepers eMail list, that went through some trials and tribulations working in his own Fish Store (yes, he was the owner). Generated a ton of bandwidth on the list, I'd be surprised if you couldn't find some good info from the messages. Try checking the archives or doing a search for it on reefkeepers.org.
I can't remember the guys last name.. I want to say it was Todd Crail, called himself Crazy Farmer Todd... but I can't be 100% sure those are the same people (so many names, no faces).

- Mac

[Chucker]

Yep, it was Todd. Todd Crail. Or Farmertodd. Or Bad Mood Todd. <shudder> And yes, he is crazy. [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

You should be able to find the threads stashed away on www.topica.com in the reefkeepers mailing list.

[JennM]

Great advice from Mary....work a year in the biz to be sure it's what you want. Not everybody likes to algae-wipe every day and clean skimmers [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Do LOTS of research. Have a firm business plan. When you're working for somebody else, see what they are doing that works, and more importantly, see what DOES NOT work.

Be involved. Start or join a local club. It lends to your credibility, and you can learn so much from others too. Be active within the community whose support you are seeking. Educate and be educated.

Jeremy, you forgot the endless complaints about retail prices vs. online. I love that one...I personally prefer to see my potential purchases eat and swim before I take them home (and YES I tried online purchases TWICE, two different companies, crummy results both times). OH and who do customers come to if their online purchase brings in disease? They don't go to the etailer, do they? [img]images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img] I've treated countless fish from other stores, where the seller has simply washed their hands of the whole thing after the money was collected. IMO after-sales service is just as important, and the animal's life should take precedence over whether it was purchased from my shop or not. Treat the fish to the best of your ability, and you may earn the repeat business of the customer (although the almighty dollar has incredible powers of persuasion..).

I've not been one to say, "I told you so" (not in so many words, anyway [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] ), that would be bad customer service, but it breaks my heart to see somebody try to save a dollar by buying online or at a discount type store that doesn't know beans about what they are selling, or the health it's in, and sell to an unsuspecting (and under-informed) client.

Don't expect to get rich. In reality, unless you've got access to unlimited capital, you aren't likely to turn a profit for at least the first two years, and that can mean not taking a paycheck if necessary. Don't plan on your whole family making their living there...somebody in the family needs to have a "real" job [img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] to keep the bills paid at home! This type of endeavour is something that is a labour of love, IMO. For me it is anyway, it's something I'm interested and passionate about, and I get lots of personal enjoyment from talking about fish and corals with customers and friends. I learn every day, and hopefully I pass some of that on to others.

As to including mammals, birds and/or reptiles, I'm against the mainstream in this thread. *I* prefer to buy from stores that specialize in marine/reef, not an all-purpose pet store. While it might be economically more sound to include other animals, they do not interest me, and I'd rather give 100 % of my time and effort to fish, corals and inverts, than to rodents, puppies, kittens, birds and/or iguanas. Just my opinion, but in my 15 or so years in the hobby, the BEST specimens and advice have come to me from stores where that was all they did. IMO Do one thing and do it with excellence.

Jenn