Reefs.org Forums

[Louis Z]

For example the difficult obligate sps species. Put a limit on howmany are imported per year and those that want to sell them must be certified by our own industry watchdogs rather than the government. I just hate to see these fish come in to a certain LFS that is a deathtrap for them. They sell these butterflys for $12 to anyone that comes in the door. If you had some type of hoop that they must jump through to order them -I doubt that they would take the time to do it. Most every thing dies in there along with the reptiles, and birds- but they keep ordering. Thanks Louis Z.

[naesco]

I think it is an excellent idea. Only those interested in researching these difficult species should be able to buy them IMO. Unfortuneately I do not think industry wants to police itself with the result that the good LFS and reefers will lose big time.

Is it possible to have the Animal Protection people shut down and charge the owner of that LFS?

[SPC]

Posted by naesco:
Unfortuneately I do not think industry wants to police itself with the result that the good LFS and reefers will lose big time.

- And this is because their ultimate customer (we the hobbiest) are willing to accept their business practices.
Steve

[MaryHM]

Naesco:

Animal protection people don't want to see ANY fish in an aquarium. I'm going to have some proof of that on my next website update. So if they get involved, you can kiss the hobby goodbye. Unfortunately most of those groups are quite fanatical and will not see the difference between a fish that can be kept and a fish that can't. Open the door to them and you close the door on the hobby.

[naesco]

Mary I didn't mean the animal rights groups.
In Canada (don't know about the USA) we have the Society for the Protection of Cruelty to Animals (SPCA). This is an organization that contracts with governements at all levels and has the power to go in and seize animals suspected of being maltreated and also has the power to charge persons with (quasi-Criminal offences).
In the situation mentioned in Canada on a complaint the SPCA would go to the pet store and if the found bad things happening would take the above steps. Often the first visit would result in a warning.
In Canada people go to jail or are heavily fined for mistreating animals.
Is there an SPCA in the US or an organization with similar authority?

[JennM]

Naesco, it depends what state you are in, but yes, in general there are government agencies that deal with animal protection. For me, here in GA, I need to have an Animal Protection Licence. When I first opened, I contacted the state's Department of Agriculture and requested an inspection. They sent an inspector to check my premises and he wrote a 3 page report (no concerns or violations!!) and approved my licence. IF somebody complains about the conditions in my store, to the Department, they can re-inspect and write me up if they find problems. They can shut me down if I don't correct problems, or make conditions right.

Unfortunately, not all states have such regulations or inspectors. I've been to some NASTY shops in FL and to my knowledge there is no animal protection licence necessary to operate a LFS there.

Jenn

[Rover]

They sent an inspector to check my premises and he wrote a 3 page report

Which basically says, "Yep they know more than I do so they must be ok."

(Jenn, did you get my email about the meeting?)

Unfortunately most of those groups are quite fanatical and will not see the difference between a fish that can be kept and a fish that can't. Open the door to them and you close the door on the hobby.

Bingo.

[Louis Z]

I know that it would be a huge undertaking trying to impose limits on fish. I also believe that any government involvement would be disastrous. As for the LFS that I mention - they usually cater to people just entering the hobby- I rarely see anyone in there that looks like they have any knowledge about the hobby. They really ask very simple questions which anyone having a tank for awhile would know. The LFS has been in the buisness for over 10 years and have even gotten into a bigger outlet. They not only sell SW but FW, birds and reptiles. The whole store is a deathtrap. Well anyway the idea behind this thread was to put limits on difficult fish yet not put them out of reach of the hobbyist. For example: The golden pygmy angel is difficult to keep. Most will eat sps corals. Yet I read in one of these BB ( cant remember) that someone actually had a pair develop in his large sps tank. The hobbyist didnt mind that they nipped on his sps because he had so many in his tank that he never noticed it. The same could be done with the butterflys. I dont think the fish are impossible and should be banned yet they are difficult and worth trying to work with. Once banned we would never know if they can be kept. Thanks Louis Z.