Reefs.org Forums

[dizzy]

Gresh,

Let's assume Kalk is right about the fuzzy math. Perhaps each poor Philippino diver is only selling one box of fish per week. What I want to know is how many boxes of live rock and coral is Walt Smith selling per week, to make the payments on that black BMW mentioned in the LA Times article?

[Kalkbreath]

Walt sells more then anyone.......with little effects on the 800 islands of Fiji! Funny how Walts guys have to draw water for their holding system from a mile away because the sugar plant accross the lagoon pumps so much crud into the water , that he cant use it !
_________________
Honda GL650
_________________
Honda Z50M

[PeterIMA]

Kalk, There you go again. What leads you to believe that live rock collection from the wild in Fiji is sustainable? A strong rumour has it, that the government of Fiji disagrees, and will ban live rock harvest soon.

PeterIMA

[dizzy]

Peter,

I'd say that rumor is probably accurate. Walt Smith showed a video at the MACNA banquet, that showed how his company is making an artificial live rock. It is made from a foamed cement. It is porous and light weight. It looks great, so kudos to Walt. Walt said it will sell for the same price per pound as harvested live rock. Point is Walt probably wouldn't be going to all this trouble unless he knew something we don't. Sounds like the Beamer is safe from the repo man.

Mitch

[naesco]

I think it is about time we banned the import of live rock from anywhere quite frankly.
IMO industry should spend its efforts trying to find an effective way of quickly culturing the critters, corals and other life on man made structure.
Alternatively, severely restricting its import so that the price rises to such a level that only one or two pieces are purchased for each tank for cosmetic value and 'seeding' the man made forms.

[DBM]

Naesco, what's wrong with promoting a sustainable fishing industry? Have you ever eaten wild salmon here on the coast? If you're opposed to collecting fish off a reef in a sustainable manner then I hope your encouraging everyone to only eat aquacultured seafood.

There's nothing wrong with encouraging a sustainable ornamental fish collecting industry. Aquaculture only is not the way to go, encouraging the proper management of our wild resources must be included. I believe in conservation, not preservation. ( BTW, I'm actually pro-aquaculture, since my education and work history is in this field)

[Kalkbreath]

Check out my posts about the live rock and Fiji Ban.and the "Fiji thread.".......Four years ago Eric Borneman did a report for the Fiji gov. In this report Eric reported that the amounts of live rock and coral at ten times what was being shipped.100 thousand Acroporas when it was only ten thousand! Some one pointed out that his numbers were so high that even if evry flight leaving Fiji was filled with nothing but liverock , These numbers were still too high! http://www.coral.noaa.gov/themes/fiji-harvest.html In a chain of 500 islands islands this hobby removes about two Walmart tractor trailers containers a year............... Maybe instead the Fiji people could do like the Maldives and build an airport to allow more ECO-TOURISM! The amount of live coral and liverock the Maldives used as fill was about ten thousand times the amount the yaerly Fiji export... or to be viewed another way .........more live coral and live rock then this hobby could collect in one hundred years!{ using CITES reports and math} One more interesting twist about all the dredging in the Maldives, All the reefs that were dug up and used as fill for the jumbo jet airstrip........would have died anyway because of all the massive bleaching events there soon after. 98 percent of all hard corals died from the warm water temps, seems there are greater threats to the reefs even in areas we dont collect?
_________________
Honda Gyro
_________________
japan economy

[Checker]

Kalk- Again, all thats "collected" is not shipped. They dump tons of corals before shipping because they aren't the right shape. I've been told, by people whom have visitted these exporters that they have huge piles of "non aquarium friendly" corals rotting under the sun. Its hard to find "aquarium friendly" coral. Erics figures probably took that into account.

[Kalkbreath]

No Eric stated, that his numbers were amounts exported.not collected.. So you think a collector is going to be hauling hundreds of pound of corals in his tiny rowboat , miles back to shore. Each day .......day after day..week after week. Never learning which corals are aquarium friendly?
_________________
Mercedes Benz W136
_________________
g13 diesel pics

[Checker]

Happens every day Kalk!!!

When I said "aquarium friendly" I was talking about size & shape. One exporter may have very different ideas about whats is good than another, thus creating mutli standards the divers try to follow. Exporters may have too much of what the diver is bringing, so he(the diver) gets turned away(holding corals). Corals get damaged in transit, clunking around in buckets and such, the exporters aren't going to buy those either. Do you think he'll return those corals to the sea if he's unable to sell them to anyone? Do you think the diver has his own holding facility for corals he's unable to sell, the same diver who made his mask out of coke bottles and sucks off engines fumes sucked in by the compressor for his hooka? Or better yet, maybe he'll call the exporters on his non-existant phone, to ask what they need and want. We aren't talking 1st world here, we are talking about villagers, VERY POOR VILLAGERS spead over many miles and islands.

[naesco]

DMB I agree with everything you say provided we are not harvesting fish and coral which are impossible to keep. This is an issue that all industry ought to be very concerned about .
But on the issue of rock once you remove it how does it sustain itself? Doen't it take eons? Does it not impair the habitat of the fish and coral and other critters that need it?

[Kalkbreath]

Walt smith company collects 80 percent of Fiji corals, his divers have been collecting for him for ten years.......they Know what they need to collect, Tonga is the same way, Dateline Tonga only collects certain corals at all. Week after week its the same twenty types .......There is little waste. Jakarta, perhaps is the only area which many small time collectors bring there corals to a broker . But again, how many times do you think a diver is going to spend all day collecting junk? About as many times as he bumps his head on the bottom of the boat! Not many repeated mistakes! Also most of the piles of coral you see on the islands ,are for building home foundations and walls! Almost everything on the islands is built with coral taken from the sea.......even airports!
_________________
climate change
_________________
Greece Forum