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[dizzy]

Jeremy if memory serves International Seaoard was owned by Filipino, Andy Iyes or something like that. I believe he also owned Manila Aquatics in Tampa, FL. It's been quite awhile ago, but I used to get some stuff from Manila Aquatics. The price on many fish is about the same as it was 18-years ago. The variety is much better today.

[John_Brandt]

For decades we had International Seaboard Inc. They have since closed.

John what caused them to go out of business?

I don't know for certain Mitch. But I can make some guesses.

I think that it was a combination of circumstances that did it. Seaboard, as it was commonly called, was owned and run by a Filipino family. Husband Andres "Andy" Eyas and wife Lily managed the operation for about 30 years in Franklin Park (a suburb of Chicago near O'Hare airport). For nearly all of that time, Seaboard dominated the cash-and-carry marine wholesale business in the midwest. The variety available there, especially in the late 1980's, was truly impressive.

Andy was the first importer of the famous original (and now nostalgic) glass MiniReef aquariums that were being shipped from Holland under the direction of Lammert deHaan (now at Dutch Aquarium Systems in Texas). In 1985 they came complete with protein skimmers, rotating spray-bar, wet/dry DLS with a gravel tray below, HO fluorescents and highly-efficient drip denitrifiers. These aquariums were marketed as never needing water changes, and many aquarists did just that.

Andy also was one of the first in the USA to bring in quantities and variety of Red Sea fishes. I can remember paying $300 wholesale for a saucer-sized Purple tang in 1986. Red Sea Imperator angelfish regularly were retailing for $500. Those were also the days of 10" Sohal tangs whose scalpels could deprive you of your pinkie finger in an instant.

In the mid 1990's, Lily Eyas suffered a massive stroke while unpacking a fish shipment in the warehouse. She has remained partially paralyzed ever since. A few years later Apet opened a huge marine wholesale operation nearby, whose inventory seemed to be twice that of Seaboard. Combining that with increasing competition from transhippers, they never seemed to recover from these events.

Although I do believe that they still live in the area, I have not seen the Eyas family in several years. They will always remain close to my heart, as they were some of the kindest and personable people I have ever met in the business. I do miss them.

[cortez marine]

John,
I know them as well. From the Philippine perspective.
I worked with divers islands off the North shore of Buhol and interviewed a number of them for FAMA magazine.
The divers and their children as young as 12 years old would recieve advances of Cyanide from Eyas and his workers. They would use it on virtually everything. He controlled them thru supply of the collecting agent they needed to do business. Although his own business in Chicago imported fish from Hawaii and other net collecting sources, he pushed cyanide aggressively in his own country and helped to destroy thousands and thousands of coral heads...especially in our beloved Buhol.
The Danajon Banks off Buhol are some of the most degraded to be seen. It is a legacy of his and to subsequent generations of poor fisherman struggling to make ends meet there. The increase of poverty in the region makes him something of a traitor to his own people.
Yes, he got away with it and retires in Chicago...yes, crime pays sometimes doesn't it?
Steve

[Rover]

Exactly chucker.. hence the whole point of keeping the livestock healthy so you don't lose more money on it than you have too.

Another problem is that most hobbyist (or tank owners rather) are content to simply replace their fish every six weeks. Which makes it easy for the shop owner to take advantage of. It's amazing to me how many customers seem surprised when we explain to them, that you're not supposed to lose fish every two weeks.

[JennM]

"We" means anyone who purchases animals wholesale to be sold at retail.

The example of $4.95 is not perc, it's ocellaris.

I used "perc" in the "generic" sense -- I can't buy a (false) perc (read: ocellaris) for $4.95, and I sure as heck can't sell it for $30.

BTW ***** sells those same fish (from the same place) for $8 each every time they have a grand opening in the area, the whole chain sells them for that. I'd have a hard time being taken seriously if I asked $30 for it, now wouldn't I?

Different cities, different markets, different prices. The bottom line is, and I still maintain, that the alleged "profit margin" (or the revenue that pays to keep the store's doors open and bills paid) comes more from the dry goods than from the livestock, and carries much less risk. And to keep with the original point of the thread, it better behoves a store to keep its eyes on the prize - the prize being a long-term, successful and happy customer, than to grab the fast cash today, and screw 'em for tomorrow.

Jenn

[dizzy]

[I used "perc" in the "generic" sense -- I can't buy a (false) perc (read: ocellaris) for $4.95, and I sure as heck can't sell it for $30.

Jenn,
Actually you can if your willing to buy wild caught.

[JeremyR]

Jenn,
Actually you can if your willing to buy wild caught.

And that would just be silly!

[John_Brandt]

Cash and Carry tank-raised Ocellaris clownfish in Chicago are under $7.00 each per 25 lot.

[JennM]

Well I buy MOST of my clowns tank raised, and landed to my door from ORA they (ocellaris) are more than $7 - and I don't have a problem with that. However, I'd be laughed out of the ATL if I tried to sell them for $30. P**** sells them for $8 whenever they have yet another "grand opening" in the area. It's one thing to not stoop to the "turn and burn" attitude of the "devil may care" stores, but it's another to be selling the identical product for 4 times the price.

Even wild caught may be cheaper on the sticker price, but add freight and box charges, it adds up. And since I'm a small store, I don't think I ever need a 25 lot of any fish except chromis.

Still, all that is a mute point. The beginning of this thread was that the poster couldn't understand why economics wouldn't drive the retailer to get the healthiest (and usually net-caught) fish, it only makes sense.

I happen to agree.

Jenn

[mkirda]

Cash and Carry tank-raised Ocellaris clownfish in Chicago are under $7.00 each per 25 lot.

John,

You also have to mention that we have a breeder just outside the city that pushes out thousands of clownfish a month. There are next to no freight costs as he delivers to many of the stores... Joe can out-compete someone like ORA just because there are no air freight charges.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

[John_Brandt]

Cash and Carry tank-raised Ocellaris clownfish in Chicago are under $7.00 each per 25 lot.

John,

You also have to mention that we have a breeder just outside the city that pushes out thousands of clownfish a month. There are next to no freight costs as he delivers to many of the stores... Joe can out-compete someone like ORA just because there are no air freight charges.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

Mike,

I didn't mention Joe Lichtenbert because I'm nearly certain that he is not providing the fish I am speaking of. A local distributor has 10 species of tank-raised clownfish at bargain prices.

BTW, what species (other than ocellaris) is Joe breeding commercially these days?

I will be inquiring about the source of these TR clownfish.

[mkirda]

BTW, what species (other than ocellaris) is Joe breeding commercially these days?

I haven't spoken to him in months, John, but last I did, he was breeding around ten different species of clownfish. He was getting rid of unproductive breeding pairs around this time last year.

Regards.
Mike Kirda

[vitz]

Well I buy MOST of my clowns tank raised, and landed to my door from ORA they (ocellaris) are more than $7 - and I don't have a problem with that. However, I'd be laughed out of the ATL if I tried to sell them for $30. P**** sells them for $8 whenever they have yet another "grand opening" in the area. It's one thing to not stoop to the "turn and burn" attitude of the "devil may care" stores, but it's another to be selling the identical product for 4 times the price.
Even wild caught may be cheaper on the sticker price, but add freight and box charges, it adds up. And since I'm a small store, I don't think I ever need a 25 lot of any fish except chromis.

Still, all that is a mute point. The beginning of this thread was that the poster couldn't understand why economics wouldn't drive the retailer to get the healthiest (and usually net-caught) fish, it only makes sense.

I happen to agree.

Jenn

when i worked at an lfs up in new hampshire, we would get the occasional 'customer' asking/complaining about our damsel costs vs. the 'chain store' up the street-ours were about double their price...

here's what we told them(in a nutshell)

a: we sell them at that price because we can(and we sold out every time)

b: would you rather buy a fish at $7.99 once, or at $3.99 four times?

[JennM]

a: we sell them at that price because we can(and we sold out every time)

b: would you rather buy a fish at $7.99 once, or at $3.99 four times?

That's my point - *I* don't sell them for $8 to compete with P****, I sell them for about the going rate in this area, for LFS (not chain stores). When the occasional person balks at the price, I ask them what kind of SERVICE comes with the cheap fish. Usually I don't get an answer. But at the same time I can't charge $30 for one either because even the highest end competitor in the area isn't charging that.

Jenn

[qisma]

Hello,

My father is Andy Eyas and he never actively pushed cyanide as a method. One cannot control the methods of freelance divers, unfortunately.

I would appreciate you and anyone else refraining from vilifying my father's legacy.

[JennM]

Dude, that thread is 8 years old. It was dead and buried until you dug it out of its grave. Why?

[Snailman]

Dude, that thread is 8 years old. It was dead and buried until you dug it out of its grave. Why?

Talk about Necropost...