Reefs.org Forums

[mia1974]

When I used the medication I just tried my best to estimate the actual water volume...I am sure I was not 100% accurate but close enough. I didn't have to weigh the med as I just added 1 pill for my estimated 400g water volume.

Just follow the .05g/20g rule and you should be fine, just try to be as accurate as possible.
I dissolved the powder in a bowl of water each time before I added it to make sure it dissolved as much as possible. I added it to a very high flow area in my sump.

At MY OWN risk , I double/triple the dosage when quarantining (10 g tank) new additons (all corals not just frags) . I leave them in the Q for the full seven hours with no effects to the corals/clams I have added a few different types of coral frags and a clam since the treatments began ...I don't think accuracy here is as much of an issue (in my experience) as I am not messing around with my whole system...If I was treating a 10g display on the other hand I would just take the effort to find the more accurate scale...

[Blue Jester]

Also wanted to add that if you simply follow the laid out instructions and use the .05g per 20g to make it easier on weighing out, while approximating your volume just as you would for any other med or additive, such as DT's Phytoplankton, Magnesium sup., B-Ionic, Chemi-Clean, etc. etc. you will be fine.

There really is no reason to make this more complicated.

-Remove your crabs, shrimp, etc that you want to save
-Approx. water volume
-figure dosage
-grind pill(s)
-weigh pills
-mix with a little water or add straight to tank (sprinkle on top/pour liquid, if mixed) into high flow area)
-wait
-perform prescribed water changes.

For those wondering how to get the medication:
In accordance with the Animal Medicinal Drug Use Clarification Act of 1994 (AMDUCA), a vet may prescribe a medication for a use other than its labeled (intended) use if they feel it will not pose a threat to the subject, the environment, or the user. This clause should make it easier for you to obtain the drug from your local store. The FDA advises that you bring along any information regarding the use with you to show that you are legit, and have intentions on using the product as you say.

The FDA and manufacturer both said that the reason this drug is prescription is due to the harm that may be done to a pet that is administered the drug while Heart Worm Positive. If this weren't the case, the drug would most likely be made into an OTC product. The patent that Novartis holds also enables Novartis to choose what to present to the FDA with regards to the labeled use.

[John_Brandt]

...a vet may prescribe a medication for a use other than its labeled (intended) use if they feel it will not pose a threat to the...environment...

...and pray that the Vet does not ask you how you will dispose of the aquarium water after the treatment.

[Blue Jester]

...a vet may prescribe a medication for a use other than its labeled (intended) use if they feel it will not pose a threat to the...environment...

...and pray that the Vet does not ask you how you will dispose of the aquarium water after the treatment.

No praying involved.

I asked this. As long as you don't dump it into public water, you are ok. The FDA said flushing is ok. Don't put it in the ocean or pond.

[ReefRelated]

Dustin,
IMO, completely disolving the pill in water (or another liquid) could be as accurate or possibly more accurate than using a scale if done correctly. Why are you against this method? I am not trying to make shortcuts for myself because I already own a scale and I can follow your method. It just seems like a more practical way of doing it for the average person. It may even be a better way of doing it. For all the people with nano and mini reefs, it seems like it may be the way to go. I just wanted your thoughts on why you wouldn't want it done this way. I also respect your findings and am not trying to reinvent this process, just trying to help that's all!

[John_Brandt]

As long as you don't dump it into public water, you are ok. The FDA said flushing is ok. Don't put it in the ocean or pond.

All drains lead to the ocean....

[DustinDorton]

Reef, there are two things that I would worry about if it was dissolved in water.
#1 I have no idea how stable the medication is in water. My gut feeling is that it will not store well this way.
#2 We dont know if the medication will stay in solution, if you can get a full pill into solution in a small body of water.

When I did the test dip at and 10x and 100x strength, I kept 1 liter of water on a magnetic stirrer plate for some time. The full amount never dissolved into the water. It was difficult to watch the coral under the microscope because there was so much of the medication suspended in the water.

I don't want to discourage people from doing some responsible experimenting. There may very well be a better way to use this medication. Perhaps another thread aside from this one would be a better place to discuss it though. I was hoping this thread would remain straight forward and stick to the tested method for doing this. As this thread gets more and more messages, it will get more and more confusing.

[John_Brandt]

A moderator could go into this thread and remove all postings other than Dustin's and move the others to a new thread.

[DustinDorton]

Later this evening I will start a new thread with the suggested treatment for the bugs. I will attempt to cover all of the issues brought up in this thread.
This thread will stay open for discussion.

[John_Brandt]

John...I came up with a suggested dosage that was effective. If you want to challenge it, and reccommend a different dosage and treatment protocol, I welcome you to organize a few months worth of testing. After that testing is done, I welcome you to present it to the members of this board.

You are not making it any easier for people to treat their tanks with this stuff and I am not comfortable with the suggestions you are making.

I agree. Pay attention to Dustin, not me.

[Roll2211]

I got the med today at the local Animal Hospital. The Doc was kind of humbled at Dustin for connecting this medication to this application. I printed the thread thus far as proof as to what I was using it for and he was very impressed. He said he may even get on Reefs.org and RC to follow the thread and broaden his knowledge of marine organisms. Yet, he still made me sign a disclaimer against himself and the clinic.

Ed

[andre]

I would not stray from Dustin's dosage of the meds.It has worked great for me I added the supplied amount to a guess of 375 gallons of water 3 times and I have not seen a bug since the first treatment or lost any shrimp.At this time I see no need to change something that works so well.

[jimbo327]

Dustin,

I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU for taking the time to find the medication and sharing the results for FREE! My tank and I thank you for all the hard work and hours put into this project!

Dreaded Red Bugs, I'm taking you down in Chinatown!

Jim

[Paul A. Ifkovits]

I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU for taking the time to find the medication and sharing the results for FREE! My tank and I thank you for all the hard work and hours put into this project!

DITTO!
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[reefnut]

DITTO! here also.

[DustinDorton]

Ok guys, here is the link to the new instructions, please read them. It typed a lot, real fast, so I hope its not confusing. This thread will stay open for discussion.

http://www.reefs.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=439155#439155

Lets try our hardest to keep this thread on track. I dont want people to get confused by a bunch of BS and mess up their treatment.

Thanks again, and good luck

[JeremyR]

You spend several thousand dollars on your tank.. this dosage has been hammered out and tested by several people.. it's been pretty well established that it doesn't stay active in the water for long, so storing/freezing a premixed amount is probably a bad idea. I also didn't get real good dissolution in a small container of water. It seems to me like it works pretty well the way it is.. if you feel the need to modify the instructions, then you do so at your own risk and don't come back here crying when something bad happens. As this is a very expensive system you are dosing, do so with eyes wide open.

[DustinDorton]

Thanks for your support guys.

An update on my most recent treatment (number 4).

I went to check on the system tonight to try searching for mysis shrimp. After the first 2 treatments, I still had a few left. Tonight I was only able to find just 1! There were more amphipods than I expected and I found a peppermint shrimp alive and well. Everything else looks perfectly fine!

[-JB]

A few questions I did not see. Can I have the main lighting on? Some meds or photo reactive. Were the lights on on the systems being tested?

Is there any coloration to the water to be expected when dosing the med?

[Paul A. Ifkovits]

jb - I treated my system (all three times) during the day with lights on full blast. There is no noticeable colour change to the water.

paul
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