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[Shade of Knucklehead]

They die sometimes and get eaten by others, or rot away under a rock, they also jump out of tanks.

You have a shark of some sort? Is it eating them?

All of those are possibilities.

I have lost quite a few fish to a large brittle star, I never know whether or not the fish was dead first or not.

[vitz]

the best food for most fish is other fish

even if left uneaten-the entire fish will rot and dissolve into the water column, bones and all- with the exception of one body part-the otolith-a nearly perfectly spherical 'bone' which is part of the fish's ear, and that will not dissolve away-however-it's extremely small, and will not be noticeable to you, without pouring through the gravel bed with a strong flashlight and very good magnifying glass.

http://www.marinebiodiversity.ca/otolith/english/home.htm

[ozboy22]

thanks for that vit's

Now after trying beaslbob thought's on this way and do every thing that he ask,



after reading forums upon forums i have not seen to many people do this
i just did it to see if it works

Which to me it did.

Now i hope this test that i have done has proven that it can be done and will mantain the tank.

One more thing is that beaslbob has said to add more plants to remove my high nitrate levels ,which was done today

So on the weekend i will post my find's and post here and call this test over.


what are people's thought's on this.
after what 8 months of trying this.

[Shade of Knucklehead]

thanks for that vit's

Now after trying beaslbob thought's on this way and do every thing that he ask,



after reading forums upon forums i have not seen to many people do this
i just did it to see if it works

Which to me it did.

Now i hope this test that i have done has proven that it can be done and will mantain the tank.

One more thing is that beaslbob has said to add more plants to remove my high nitrate levels ,which was done today

So on the weekend i will post my find's and post here and call this test over.


what are people's thought's on this.
after what 8 months of trying this.

I can't see for the life of me how having unacceptable levels of Nitrates and Ammonia, and having fish disappear constantly from your tank proves Beaslebob's theories in any way, shape or form.


Actually though, if you want to continue being a commercial for him it would save us all having to discredit him constantly. Your very results discredit his theories.

[ozboy22]

In No way was i backing him up.

What i like to do is try out new thing 's and ways ,

just like you try new food.

Well the fish lost was a neon and santa claws two small fish,

and a few at the start.

What would you say fish lost is nomal for someone starting from strach and knowing nothing about fish?

5 fish lost

3 of them been from itc that come with my red tail sharks.
at the start of this set up.

No i'm not a commercial for him.

everyone was paying out on him,

but have never tired it them self's

So i took it upon me to test it out and post every step of the way that i could.

If youo look back i ask if any one wanted anything to be tested or check or if their wanted to kow anything about whats happen.

One thing that i notice was been gone for two months at atime and coming back to a tank thats was still the same way i left it was good.

not cleaning filters all anything at all just topping up the water.

Now i was reading in a other forum no system is a good system untill 2 years of been run

well i will take this on and post for a full 2 years and keep this update ever week if you like.but i will keep it at a month

Now if there's anything you wanted tested /know ask and i will reply that day.

One thing i need to know if i feed the fish and then do a test would that change my result's.

[beaslbob]

Don't worry Oz. people used to maintaining 1000s g of commercial tanks by massive daily water changes simply can not grasp the concept of a stable bioload being balanced out and stabilized by plant life and nothing else.

But you can because you left the tank alone for months.

And Cal can because he hasn't had to clean his glass for over a year.

Meanwhile, I have come home to at least one 10g for the last 28 years with a stable population of 20-30 fish, no algae, no filtration, no circulation, and no water changes.

But then this may simply be a difference between commercial facility and tanks in living rooms and bedrooms where people have to live (and sleep). And being maintained by people who have other jobs to go to also.

So why are your nitrates up? Simple. Because the nitrate consumers have not kept up with the nitrates. So you have two options. Massive invasive, upsetting, daily water changes. Or simply add more live plants to get the tank back in balance. I hope you chose the latter

FWIW here is a nitrate test of my 10g with 20-30 descendants of the original cycle trio added over 4 years ago.

oh yea. Testing right after feeding should not vary the test results much if any at all

I hope you keep us posted. Monthly would be fine.

[vitz]

Don't worry Oz. people used to maintaining 1000s g of commercial tanks by massive daily water changes simply can not grasp the concept of a stable bioload being balanced out and stabilized by plant life and nothing else.
But you can because you left the tank alone for months.

And Cal can because he hasn't had to clean his glass for over a year.

Meanwhile, I have come home to at least one 10g for the last 28 years with a stable population of 20-30 fish, no algae, no filtration, no circulation, and no water changes.

But then this may simply be a difference between commercial facility and tanks in living rooms and bedrooms where people have to live (and sleep). And being maintained by people who have other jobs to go to also.

So why are your nitrates up? Simple. Because the nitrate consumers have not kept up with the nitrates. So you have two options. Massive invasive, upsetting, daily water changes. Or simply add more live plants to get the tank back in balance. I hope you chose the latter

FWIW here is a nitrate test of my 10g with 20-30 descendants of the original cycle trio added over 4 years ago.

oh yea. Testing right after feeding should not vary the test results much if any at all

I hope you keep us posted. Monthly would be fine.

er- that is not the exclusive experience of this person you're alluding to, you simpleton-i've also maintained individual tank systems of sizes ranging from mayonaisse jars to 125's in both fresh and saltwater, with breeding experience in both as a hobbyist for over 30 years

figure out basic gravity yet ?

[vitz]

why does everyone but you acknowledge and agree with the old adage 'the solution to pollution is dilution' ?

you CANNOT refute the known proven dynamics of closed systems with your halfwitted improperly tested and foolishly observed anecdotal gobbledygook and present it as a valid usable methodolgy, and expect to not be thought of as a total fool by anyone with even only half a brain, and again, what you are doing is irresponsible to new hobbyists at the best, and you should be banned from every single fishkeeping bb on the planet

but what do i know, i've been doing this as a proffession since the late 70's, you obviously think you're far more learned and experienced than i

so what species of fish have you bred in either hobbyist or commercial amounts?

how many tanks have you kept at the most at one time ?

how many different types of tanks and of what sizes ?

what century did you learn basic physics in?

[Shade of Knucklehead]

your halfwitted improperly tested and fooishly observed anecdotal gobbledygook

Vitz, sometimes I think you are beautiful.


And I mean that in the not homo way, of course....

[beaslbob]

why does everyone but you acknowledge and agree with the old adage 'the solution to pollution is dilution' ?

...

?

I give up Why?

Every envirmental engineer I have talked two, all 2 of them, have stated the same thing. Dilution is not to solution to polution. The solution is to process the polution and make it safe. Like making sure nitrates and phosphates are unmeasureable with a heavy bioload after 4 years of operation. Even though not a single drop of water has been removed from the system. And no filter has been used. The only thing exported from my FW and salt tanks is plant life.

.02

[Shade of Knucklehead]

why does everyone but you acknowledge and agree with the old adage 'the solution to pollution is dilution' ?

...

?

I give up Why?

Every envirmental engineer I have talked two, all 2 of them, have stated the same thing. Dilution is not to solution to polution. The solution is to process the polution and make it safe. Like making sure nitrates and phosphates are unmeasureable with a heavy bioload after 4 years of operation. Even though not a single drop of water has been removed from the system. And no filter has been used. The only thing exported from my FW and salt tanks is plant life.

.02

Mayhaps you should start ending your posts with .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000002

Instead of .02

Cause that's about all they are worth.

[vitz]

why does everyone but you acknowledge and agree with the old adage 'the solution to pollution is dilution' ?

...

?

I give up Why?

Every envirmental engineer I have talked two, all 2 of them, have stated the same thing. Dilution is not to solution to polution. The solution is to process the polution and make it safe. Like making sure nitrates and phosphates are unmeasureable with a heavy bioload after 4 years of operation. Even though not a single drop of water has been removed from the system. And no filter has been used. The only thing exported from my FW and salt tanks is plant life.

.02

er- it is in a closed system you half wit-you CANNOT eliminate anything in a closed system, you can only 'sink' it (waaay oversimplified for your pea brain, but that's the main gist of what happens)-and almost every sink is temporary-waste ultimately remains waste, and will sooner or later come back to bite you in your proverbial ass

i'll bet you 5,000 dollars publicly here on this forum that in a controlled publicly exhibited experiment-you setting up and maintaining a tank your way, and me setting up and maintaining a tank the PROPER way-that overall, the fish in my system will grow faster, and be far healthier (same for all of the plant life) than yours will


care to put your money where your mouth is? i need some dental work done ASAP

[vitz]

er- let's see some pics of your tank again ?

[vitz]

since when are nitrates and phosphates the only waste products that need to be removed ? what about the myriad others that plants do NOT sink ? (like growth inhibitor hormone? )

[Shade of Knucklehead]