<Black> Hello, My Name is David Smith, Co-owner of Reef Encrustaceans and North Gulf Reef Collections. I have been in and out of the Hobby for more than 30 years.

<Black> My interest began snorkling the shallow reefs and lagoons of Puerto Rico where I was lucky enough to spend most of my young childhood.

<Black> My interest in the hobby was furthered as I later wound up living my teenage years in a sleepy little fihing village called Destin located in the panhandle of Florida.

<Black> I was a profesional diver at the young age of twelve years, working on the first and only dive boat in the area. At that time we were harvesting the abundant food fish that inhabited the local reefs.

<Black> Thirty one years later and now in the not so sleepy village my harvesting interests have long since switched to the abundant marine life from the local reefs,

<Black> I now provide deepwater rare and unusual fish and invertebrates, Aquacultured Live Rock, and Live Sand, to hobbiest, institutions, pet stores and my own aquarium store Reef Encrustaceans.

<Black> Being a pioneer in the Live rock Aquaculture, Live rock, and Live sand Harvesting business and working with different collection techneques and methods of use in our own holding facilitys and store has givin me a unique understanding of the benifits and vitues of these substates and their associated marine life in our reef aquariums today

<Black> I'd like to share some of my thoughts on these subjects and the best way I can think of to do this is to open a question and answer period on these subjects or anything else that anyone might have a question about...

<Black> so lets begin... Please be gentile and have patience remember, .. I'm a marine Life Collector not a secretary so forgive my mispelled words and slow typing..ds

<Black> ok tom i'm ready for questions..ds

<TomVeil> Are there any kinds of crustaceans that can live in a 30 gal with an octopus?

<Black> No almost nothing.ds

<Black> maybe another octopus

<TomVeil> question Other than fireworms and mantis shrimp, are there other liverock inhabitants to watch out for?

<Black> Some species of crabs can be pests....

<Black> on rare ocasions you might get isopods that you don't want..

<TomVeil> where are some good places in the Keys to collect by snorkling from the beach. WHat can be collected this way, how to collect it and what are the restrictions?

<Black> I might add that Mantis shrimp get a bad rap not all are bad..

<Black> The florida keys has been designated marine sanctuary

<Black> some places near the parks and known reefs are totally off limits0

<Black> I just got back from the keys and had a wonderfull time

<Black> south of the 7 mile bridge is a good spot for many specimens

<Black> a small boat is nice

<TomVeil> What is the best way to obtain and culture several different Coraline Algae colors in a reef tank?

<Black> in a couple days we collected 5,000 blue legs 300 candenati(scarlett hermits)

<Black> boxes of sea matt and Zoanthids

<Black> Rock from several locations would be important however depth is probably more significant

<Black> coraline from shallow water is usually on the bottom of the rocks

<Black> Julian identified 7 varieties on the rock we used to collect off the panhandle

<Black> if you dont vary the light in your tank from end to end one coraline will usually proliferate

<Black> the rock from the panhandle was from 115ft

<TomVeil> question: I know copepods are good, but they don't look so great on my glass, anything that will eat some but not all of them?

<Black> small wrasses is the best but they usually grow big six line is probably the best..

<TomVeil> Are Blue legged Hermits safer than red legged (not so aggressive against each other and snails)

<Black> Good question... all algae hermits are omnivorous..

<Black> Ive had them all and if they run out of food they can be very opertunistic

<Black> red legs and blues are on the same level the scarlett seems to be safer their old shell would indicate this

<TomVeil> a LR ?: how long should I wait for the critters that might've come on the rock to develop, corals, starfish, etc...before i just buy them outright?

<Black> Things have a tendency to multiply fast even in a closed system

<Black> it is important not to add to many preditory fish to let your rock

<Black> establish good colonies of copods amphipods

<Black> starfih and other creatures will continually grow

<Black> but there are faCTors such as preditory crabs mantis ect

<Black> that might factor as to when

<Black> dont expect corals to develop..ds

<TomVeil> What are the different techniques to transport corals and inverts, esp branching sps such as Pocillopora sp ?

<Black> wrapping them in wet paper towels and sealing them in ziplocks with just very wet towel works great

<Black> remember not to let them get very hot..ds

<TomVeil> question Shallow is 5 ft or 15 ft?

<Black> I would say shallow is to 15ft

<Black> however ther is a break uin spiecies at 5ft

<Black> what i mean is the spiecies that grow in the shallows 5ft proliferate at that depth but can be found at 15ft

<Black> but not in number

<TomVeil> From personal experience and from the aquaria newsgroups snails seem to have a very high mortality rate, are there any transport techniques that will reduce this ?

<Black> I would set depth caracteristic as 0-5ft 5-15ft 15-35ft 35ft-90 ft

<Black> the mortality is probably due to poor collection and holding ..

<Black> after collection the snails should be kept in clean cool water and shipped after cleanout like fish

<Black> not all collectors have a knowlege of reefor fish keeping and are just collectors

<TomVeil> what is the full name of candenati ?

<Black> I know this spelling isn't even close but it's something lie Paraguenitus candenati

<Black> Thats off the top of my head..

<TomVeil> question: What do you recommend for varied lighting in a 70 gal tank to foster varied coraline /live rock growth? Currently using 2 blue moons and 2 tritons (all 20 watts each)

<Black> When I was talking varying the lighting I meant stagering different intensities from end to end instead of front to back..

<TomVeil> What quanity of snails have you observed at the Keys in lets say 1 sq meter?

<Black> for good vary in coraline I sugest VHO 03 actinic and 50/50 you will not realize sucess with coraline lots with the standard watts you have mentioned

<Black> 25 to 30 per sq meter but you have to look when you find them the're thick..

<Black> this time of the year there in the thick grass down at the base

<Black> the best place to look is on the back sides of the small mangrove island in the thick turtle grass..ds

<TomVeil> Q: what all is involved in aquaculturing live rock, what type of rock is used?

<Black> We researched this for along time and are currently

<Black> using several typs of rock...

<Black> we have rock from as far away a sutah..

<Black> utah..

<Black> the best rock we have found is quarried from right

<Black> here in the panhandle it is old reef aragonite very porous and full of gorgonia and coral fossils

<Black> it is very high in strontium with a low phosphate..

<Black> our second choice is a desert lace known for its charactr

<Black> this is the rock from utah...

<Black> we now realize that with good livesand from the reef

<Black> therock consistancy and volume is not as important

<Black> the rock aquacultured from the deep has a very high recruitment rate..ds

<TomVeil> question: I am going to the Keys next month, How easy is it to collect without a boat, just snorkling? and what kind of licence do I need?

<Black> Its not that easy without a boat all you need is a florida fishing licence but you are restricted

<Black> to 20 fish invert combo's

<Black> you can rent aboat at..

<Black> bayview in at the ne end of conch key rooms only 39.00

<Black> tell them dave sent you they

<Black> will also send you in the right direction..ds

<TomVeil> Q: growing things in captivity as oppsed to collecting them

<Black> august is the lobster season so call in advance..ds

<Black> I think if you can grow it then do it.. however there is an abudance of marine life and it is not threatened..

<Black> by our hobby..ds

<TomVeil> what is the time frame between a specimen being caught and seeing it in the LFS?

<Black> I have converted my holders to grow tanks and have been active in this for a long time

<Black> as early as 6 days even from remote locations in the south pacific

<Black> that doesn't mean the're not healthy in fact poor

<Black> holding facility's can stress more than the delivery..ds

<TomVeil> Q: what are the most important parameters for growth of captive corals?

<Black> Light and calcium foremost however all parameters have to be in line

<Black> I recomend ionic suppliments and think that these will factor greatly in the suces of

<Black> facilities attempting to be successfull in the future

<Black> food also Live plkankton and green water... astonomically corect moonlight..ds

<TomVeil> Q: What does he mean by ionic supps and which ones does he recommned ?

<Black> I onic suppliments B-ionic, c-balance and Jack Kent has one also I don't know the name..ds

<TomVeil> How do you astonomically duplicate Moonlight?

<Black> there are a couple of devises that do this for you Light Wave by Digital oceans is one...

<Black> octopus and solar 2000 are others ..

<Black> i know light wave is correct not sure about the others..ds

<TomVeil> Q: Would actual ocean water be benefical in starting and sustaining (using as makeup water)?

<Black> Yes I use it alot salt mixes are good but seawater is consisted of almost all ..

<Black> elements and they can't get them in a all in a bag...

<Black> or box...DS

<Black> there is a risk of parasites...

<TomVeil> Q: how encrusted is the rock when you get it?

<Black> martin moe sugests cloroxing the seawater then treating it with a dechlorinator...

<Black> most of the rock I collected was allways 75% to 100% collected ..

<Black> if it wasn't we didn't pick it up...ds

<Black> i meant encrusted not collected..ds

<TomVeil> correction dave, the aquacultured stuff ;)

<TomVeil> sorry about that.

<Black> Ahh the aquaculture.. This is still new we like to maintain the same encrusting percentages it's like wine the older the better

<Black> we were hit by a hurricane and had major setback..

<Black> and are just now putting our rock on the market

<TomVeil> Q: Aren't there problems with bacteria and other "bad guys" in real salt water?

<Black> we wont sell it till i'ts good and ready..ds

<Black> Yes.... there is a risk we try and avoid this by getting our water from well offshore...

<Black> and have only had one bad experience..ds

<Black> These problems can be avoided by treating the water as martin suggests

<Black> However i use the water for food also..ds

<DougC> dave - what equipment is needed for collecting?

<Black> Your welcome everyone I hope I wasn't a bore...Ds

* Mork Dave how can you tell if a fish is net or cyanide caught in a shop ?

<GaryBrown> Dave - can you mention what your aquacultured liverock prices are?

<Black> Doug I use my hands for all inverts and nets for fish..

<Black> a flaoting bait bucket with the baffles removed so it sinks is a must..

<Mindy> dave, where are you located on the panhandle?

<Black> the trap door is very convenient and you can piggy back to seperate specimens

<Black> Yes in the panhandle Destin Fl...ds

<cameron> Dave, what permits do you need if you want to collect in Florida or Carib ?

<Mindy> what is the name of your store? is it reef encrustaceans?

<Black> To collect comercially a Saltwater products licence with a restricted spiecies and marine life endorsement..

<Black> yes reef Encrustaceans..

<El_Pingu> Dave, could you explain cloroxing/declorinating of sea water briefly please?

<DougC> Dave- I will be staying in Big Pine Key next month. any good collecting places there, boat rental? ect.

<Black> to collect personally a florida fishing licence..

<cameron> ok, thanks... are there any regulations on collecting for personal use ?

<Black> Big pine is awsome stay away from closed areas

<cameron> how would I find out the regulations on what is ok to collect ?

<Shinobi> Dave, how far north on the Florida coast can I find reef-type fish and inverts?

<Black> boat rental s are common everywhere..

<Black> boat rental bayview inn on conch key 20 miles north..ds

<GaryBrown> Dave - You've been diving since at least 12 - do you ever get tired/bored with it?

<Albert> Dave: do you have web site and what is the URL and what is you email address

<Mindy> I was just vacationing in Destin Black.....and bought a sponge and nice piece of your Gulf rock...(the stuff left from the last collection)....

<Black> martin moe details seawater conditioning in his book. tropical fih are abundant all the way to texas spicies very ..

<DougC> Dave - what inverts can I expect to collect besides snails & hermits. How much of a variety of Zooanthids?

<Black> problem is reefs are well offshore the furter north you travel..

<DougC> snorkling that is

<Black> only a couple of Zoanthids sea matt and societas..

* Mark Dave could you please explain "shipped after cleanout like fish"

<Black> a dive or two via the computor we should be running shortly..e-mail reef@emeraldcoast.com ..

<todd> dave, what are your feelings on Ca reactors? I've heared rumors that they stunt/slow coraline growth

<Black> I think calcium reactors are good but I would caution the medium...

<Black> I am a firm believer in ionic dosing

<todd> Dave, I've got a Knop reator, any word/caution

<cameron> dave you mentioned media in CA reactors... what is an ok media ?

<Black> The reason i say caution is I heard a talk by alf nielson who...

<Black> after adding a reactor the substate in the reactoer was high in phosphate...

<Black> It crashed one of the finest reef tanks in the world..

<cameron> do you know what media he was using ??... I am using caribsea

<Black> I would test the substate by letting it sit in a low ph then test for phosphate...ds

<cameron> ok... will test some of the output of my reactor shortly...

<Black> the media was aquired in europe all in all I think carib sea is fine but I never tested it myself...

<Black> I think it could very depending on what area of the mine it came from that day..ds

<Black> choad, which one?

<senna> anyone yet have a grist on the: Korallin C-1500 Kalkreaktor?

<senna> it looks like a great design...w/many +'s

<senna> i'd like an opinion, though

<Mark> Dave could you please explain "shipped after cleanout like fish"

<Black> That is an Argi and in one of my reefs is the only fish I use them in many of my setups with no affects..ds

<cameron> just checked caribsea... phosphate is unmeasureable

<Black> Mark, after collecting fish and before shipping they should be unfed for a period of at least 3 days so they don't poop in the bag..

<senna> DS: do u think that the new media/other than aragonite/ e.g. highly purified KORALlith is the answer to the aragonite phosapahte dissolution problem?

<Black> snails the same and espesially crabs should be allowed to clean there systems...

<Black> senna I'm sory but I'm not familiar with that substrate I guess Iv'e had my head under water too long <G>...ds

<Black> I think that initial holding or bad collection doesn't allways mANifest it'self till about 3 months.. maybe this is your answer..ds

<Black> Thank you everyone I enjoyed really enjoyed myself. I think you have a great chat room and will be lurking in the future goodnight to all...ds