Libertaria

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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 21st, 2018, 10:28 am

Matt_ wrote:Strange that your free market capitalist society with no government regulation didn’t solve those problems. Everything you constantly preach is a pile of ****.

Yea just like all those staving, homeless, sick people who haven't had their problems solved under socialism.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » August 29th, 2018, 4:17 am

Nobody here in this thread or ever in the history of RDO has argued that we should have a completely socialist government in the United States of America. Who the **** are you even arguing with?
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 29th, 2018, 11:15 am

Matt_ wrote:Nobody here in this thread or ever in the history of RDO has argued that we should have a completely socialist government in the United States of America. Who the **** are you even arguing with?



Matt_ wrote:Strange that your free market capitalist society with no government regulation didn’t solve those problems. Everything you constantly preach is a pile of ****.


you for one. LOL
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Flabello Meandroid » August 29th, 2018, 8:33 pm

reading fail
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » August 29th, 2018, 9:21 pm

I think brain fail would be more accurate. He seems to know how to read the words.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » August 29th, 2018, 9:23 pm

beaslbob wrote:
Matt_ wrote:Nobody here in this thread or ever in the history of RDO has argued that we should have a completely socialist government in the United States of America. Who the **** are you even arguing with?



Matt_ wrote:Strange that your free market capitalist society with no government regulation didn’t solve those problems. Everything you constantly preach is a pile of ****.


you for one. LOL


Um, no. Try reading it a few more times and you might get it.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 30th, 2018, 11:25 am

double
Last edited by beaslbob on August 30th, 2018, 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 30th, 2018, 11:27 am

beaslbob wrote:
Matt_ wrote:
beaslbob wrote:
Matt_ wrote:Nobody here in this thread or ever in the history of RDO has argued that we should have a completely socialist government in the United States of America. Who the **** are you even arguing with?



Matt_ wrote:
Strange that your free market capitalist society with no government regulation didn’t solve those problems. Everything you constantly preach is a pile of ****.


you for one. LOL


Um, no. Try reading it a few more times and you might get it.


I read it just fine. The point is irrelevant.

What particular problems does a free market capitalist society with no government regulation create?
People go to through life making decisions, acting on those decisions, going to school, working, getting paid for that work, and helping others. What government regulation is needed? As long as no one is holding a gun to your head and not stealing, market condition are met.

The problem is the socialist rejects that and finds some perceived ‘problem’.

So the government implements some program to take success from the upper 80% to correct that 'problem’. Afterwards there are still 20% of the population making less than the rest and having problems

So more and more programs are needed. More regulations on products and how they are produced, more government give away programs

The ultimate goal is that all wages are controlled by the government. So that a coke head wino on the street, burger flipper, cashier, used car salesman, engineer, lawyer, doctor, and everyone makes the exact same amount. At the point all the wages are ‘fair’ and definitely equal.
And all products are controlled by the government. Must be the ultimate in safety because consumers are just too stupid to make those decisions.
So there is no acceptable percentage of socialism. Anyone losing freedom means everyone is not free.
Meanwhile back at that evil, must be controlled free markets, there is less and less economic activity, people experience shortages, are working where they don’t want too and wages that are unacceptable, producing products consumer don’t want. All to correct the problems of capitalism
So there is no such thing as an acceptable level of socialism. It will always expand and the government controls more and more of society.

Meanwhile, the government cannot over rule the law of supply and demand.
Last edited by beaslbob on August 30th, 2018, 1:56 pm, edited 14 times in total.
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 30th, 2018, 11:34 am

double
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby GratefulDiver » September 4th, 2018, 2:42 pm

Podman wrote:Like this last one, the amount of disdain that you hold for the lower income class is palpable and it is everything that I expect from a Libertarian.

Interesting that you not only presume but go so far as to assume to know a damn thing about me.

Here's a quick survey to see how well your **** adds up:
How many times have I eaten government cheese?
How many times have I been sued?
How many times (and what for) have I brought suits against others?
Where was the first home I purchased? (Or even more simply, what was its general makeup?)
In the last 30 years, how many new vehicles have I owned?
In the last 30 years, how many new computers have I owned?

Tell you what, ****, I'll give you the last two.. ZERO, ****.

Now go suck a bag of dicks. You know, like every other Monday for you, Portlandouche.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » September 4th, 2018, 6:30 pm

GratefulDiver wrote:
Podman wrote:Like this last one, the amount of disdain that you hold for the lower income class is palpable and it is everything that I expect from a Libertarian.

Interesting that you not only presume but go so far as to assume to know a damn thing about me.

Here's a quick survey to see how well your **** adds up:
How many times have I eaten government cheese?
How many times have I been sued?
How many times (and what for) have I brought suits against others?
Where was the first home I purchased? (Or even more simply, what was its general makeup?)
In the last 30 years, how many new vehicles have I owned?
In the last 30 years, how many new computers have I owned?

Tell you what, ****, I'll give you the last two.. ZERO, ****.

Now go suck a bag of dicks. You know, like every other Monday for you, Portlandouche.


I especially like how they assume we have distain for the lower class because we don't support the government forcibly taking success from some and giving it to the lower class.

After all no government program is required for me or others to help people.

So the real difference is The socialists don't trust people to take care of others and therefore socialists must force society to mandate their programs to insure the program is correct in their eyes. Which usually using other people's money.

So it is not about helping society it is actually about surrendering your freedom to an all powerful government they control.

meanwhile there will still be 20% at the bottom, 20% at the middle and 20% at the top. So more and more freedom must be surrendered.
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » September 4th, 2018, 11:25 pm

GratefulDiver wrote:
Podman wrote:Like this last one, the amount of disdain that you hold for the lower income class is palpable and it is everything that I expect from a Libertarian.

Interesting that you not only presume but go so far as to assume to know a damn thing about me.

Here's a quick survey to see how well your **** adds up:
How many times have I eaten government cheese?
How many times have I been sued?
How many times (and what for) have I brought suits against others?
Where was the first home I purchased? (Or even more simply, what was its general makeup?)
In the last 30 years, how many new vehicles have I owned?
In the last 30 years, how many new computers have I owned?

Tell you what, ****, I'll give you the last two.. ZERO, ****.

Now go suck a bag of dicks. You know, like every other Monday for you, Portlandouche.


Jesus you’re angry. How many times have you gotten laid in the last 30 years? :lol:
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » September 4th, 2018, 11:29 pm

beaslbob wrote:
GratefulDiver wrote:
Podman wrote:Like this last one, the amount of disdain that you hold for the lower income class is palpable and it is everything that I expect from a Libertarian.

Interesting that you not only presume but go so far as to assume to know a damn thing about me.

Here's a quick survey to see how well your **** adds up:
How many times have I eaten government cheese?
How many times have I been sued?
How many times (and what for) have I brought suits against others?
Where was the first home I purchased? (Or even more simply, what was its general makeup?)
In the last 30 years, how many new vehicles have I owned?
In the last 30 years, how many new computers have I owned?

Tell you what, ****, I'll give you the last two.. ZERO, ****.

Now go suck a bag of dicks. You know, like every other Monday for you, Portlandouche.


I especially like how they assume we have distain for the lower class because we don't support the government forcibly taking success from some and giving it to the lower class.

After all no government program is required for me or others to help people.

So the real difference is The socialists don't trust people to take care of others and therefore socialists must force society to mandate their programs to insure the program is correct in their eyes. Which usually using other people's money.

So it is not about helping society it is actually about surrendering your freedom to an all powerful government they control.

meanwhile there will still be 20% at the bottom, 20% at the middle and 20% at the top. So more and more freedom must be surrendered.


Can you tell us one more time about your feelings on socialists? I didn’t quite get the gist the first 10,000 times you’ve posted this. Must be a blast at parties. :lol:
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Podman » September 5th, 2018, 4:51 pm

beaslbob wrote:
What particular problems does a free market capitalist society with no government regulation create?

Radium Girls, female factory workers exposed to radium poisoning without their knowledge, were even encouraged to lick radium paintbrushes
Dec 19, 2017 Nikola Budanovic


During the early 20th century, little was known about radioactive elements. In 1898, Marie Curie and her husband, Pierre, discovered two such elements in their experiments―radium and polonium. In 1902, samples of radium were given to an American inventor and scientist, William Hammer, who experimented with its use in medicine.

Since its discovery, radium has been perceived as a possible cure for cancer, and as such was largely perceived as a healthy element with little or no negative side effects whatsoever. This led to a fad in products intended for home use, such as radium-enriched water, toothpaste, lipsticks, cosmetics, and a number of drugs that claimed to cure everything from arthritis to high blood pressure.

Luckily, all these products contained a very low amount of radium, which rendered them harmless. Whether they indeed cured all of the above-mentioned diseases is very doubtful, but one thing became apparent during the years of meddling with this dangerous substance―as radium decays and comes in contact with other elements, it reacts by releasing a glow.

In the meantime, Dr. Sabin Arnold von Sochocky discovered a way to produce special paint mixed with radium and other substances and registered it under the brand name UnDark. The patent soon found its purpose with the U.S. military, which used it to illuminate numbers and dials used for watches so they could glow in the dark.

In 1917, the U.S. entered the war, thus shifting the main workforce from men to women. The factories employed local women to paint clocks with deadly radium paint. These women were paid substantially more than other factory workers, but were not instructed in any possible side-effects of radium, causing most of them to suffer from radiation poisoning in the years to follow.

The clocks painted with radium were mainly produced in three factories, under different companies. The first was in New Jersey, second in Illinois, and the third in Connecticut.

Even though there were several companies in the radium paint business, the United States Radium Corporation (USRC), with its factory based in Orange, New Jersey, would gain the most notoriety concerning the neglect of workers’ health, as it would be the first to encounter radiation poisoning among their work staff.

While the employers and the higher staff had some limited knowledge of the dangers the mysterious element contained, the workers had none.

The chemists used lead screens, masks and other pieces of protective equipment while working with radium, clearly aware of the potential consequences.A competitor company called Radium Dial Corporation, based in Illinois, was beginning to suffer the same fate as USRC. Cases like this began to appear in Canada as well. The truth was out, and there was no way to contain it.

The corporations, together with their military contractor, were trying to reduce the damage that had been done. It was later determined that at least one of the examinations conducted on the factory workers was fake, in order to show that there was no radiation poisoning at hand, simply a viral infection.

Also, the companies were instructing the medical professionals conducting the examinations to keep quiet about their discoveries. In order to further cover it up, the symptoms were attributed to syphilis, which was still a widespread sexually transmitted disease at the time.

Litigation by the women affected by radium soon followed. It received widespread media coverage and support from the public, even though it proved fairly difficult to take on corporations such as United States Radium Corp. and Radium Dial. In addition to the hardships of pursuing lawsuits, many of the workers were already bedridden by the time the court session was scheduled in January 1928.

Five women who managed to testify―Grace Fryer, Edna Hussman, Katherine Schaub, and sisters Quinta McDonald and Albina Larice―were dubbed by the media as the Radium Girls. The term soon applied to all of the radium-dial female factory workers.

It was a slow-moving case, as the court was often pressured to rule in favor of the companies. In the end, justice triumphed, even though it was too late for many of the affected.


https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/12/19/radium-girls/
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Podman » September 5th, 2018, 4:52 pm

GratefulDiver wrote:
Podman wrote:Like this last one, the amount of disdain that you hold for the lower income class is palpable and it is everything that I expect from a Libertarian.

Interesting that you not only presume but go so far as to assume to know a damn thing about me.

Here's a quick survey to see how well your **** adds up:
How many times have I eaten government cheese?
How many times have I been sued?
How many times (and what for) have I brought suits against others?
Where was the first home I purchased? (Or even more simply, what was its general makeup?)
In the last 30 years, how many new vehicles have I owned?
In the last 30 years, how many new computers have I owned?

Tell you what, ****, I'll give you the last two.. ZERO, ****.

Now go suck a bag of dicks. You know, like every other Monday for you, Portlandouche.


You did such a fine job of showing me the sensible side of the libertarian crowd.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » September 5th, 2018, 6:04 pm

Podman wrote:
beaslbob wrote:
What particular problems does a free market capitalist society with no government regulation create?

Radium Girls, female factory workers exposed to radium poisoning without their knowledge, were even encouraged to lick radium paintbrushes
Dec 19, 2017 Nikola Budanovic


During the early 20th century, little was known about radioactive elements. In 1898, Marie Curie and her husband, Pierre, discovered two such elements in their experiments―radium and polonium. In 1902, samples of radium were given to an American inventor and scientist, William Hammer, who experimented with its use in medicine.

Since its discovery, radium has been perceived as a possible cure for cancer, and as such was largely perceived as a healthy element with little or no negative side effects whatsoever. This led to a fad in products intended for home use, such as radium-enriched water, toothpaste, lipsticks, cosmetics, and a number of drugs that claimed to cure everything from arthritis to high blood pressure.

Luckily, all these products contained a very low amount of radium, which rendered them harmless. Whether they indeed cured all of the above-mentioned diseases is very doubtful, but one thing became apparent during the years of meddling with this dangerous substance―as radium decays and comes in contact with other elements, it reacts by releasing a glow.

In the meantime, Dr. Sabin Arnold von Sochocky discovered a way to produce special paint mixed with radium and other substances and registered it under the brand name UnDark. The patent soon found its purpose with the U.S. military, which used it to illuminate numbers and dials used for watches so they could glow in the dark.

In 1917, the U.S. entered the war, thus shifting the main workforce from men to women. The factories employed local women to paint clocks with deadly radium paint. These women were paid substantially more than other factory workers, but were not instructed in any possible side-effects of radium, causing most of them to suffer from radiation poisoning in the years to follow.

The clocks painted with radium were mainly produced in three factories, under different companies. The first was in New Jersey, second in Illinois, and the third in Connecticut.

Even though there were several companies in the radium paint business, the United States Radium Corporation (USRC), with its factory based in Orange, New Jersey, would gain the most notoriety concerning the neglect of workers’ health, as it would be the first to encounter radiation poisoning among their work staff.

While the employers and the higher staff had some limited knowledge of the dangers the mysterious element contained, the workers had none.

The chemists used lead screens, masks and other pieces of protective equipment while working with radium, clearly aware of the potential consequences.A competitor company called Radium Dial Corporation, based in Illinois, was beginning to suffer the same fate as USRC. Cases like this began to appear in Canada as well. The truth was out, and there was no way to contain it.

The corporations, together with their military contractor, were trying to reduce the damage that had been done. It was later determined that at least one of the examinations conducted on the factory workers was fake, in order to show that there was no radiation poisoning at hand, simply a viral infection.

Also, the companies were instructing the medical professionals conducting the examinations to keep quiet about their discoveries. In order to further cover it up, the symptoms were attributed to syphilis, which was still a widespread sexually transmitted disease at the time.

Litigation by the women affected by radium soon followed. It received widespread media coverage and support from the public, even though it proved fairly difficult to take on corporations such as United States Radium Corp. and Radium Dial. In addition to the hardships of pursuing lawsuits, many of the workers were already bedridden by the time the court session was scheduled in January 1928.

Five women who managed to testify―Grace Fryer, Edna Hussman, Katherine Schaub, and sisters Quinta McDonald and Albina Larice―were dubbed by the media as the Radium Girls. The term soon applied to all of the radium-dial female factory workers.

It was a slow-moving case, as the court was often pressured to rule in favor of the companies. In the end, justice triumphed, even though it was too late for many of the affected.


https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/12/19/radium-girls/


kinda hard to see where a government regulation would have prevented any of that especially when the dangers of a commonly used substance was unknown. Meanwhile radium is no longer used in watches.
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » September 5th, 2018, 6:06 pm

Matt_ wrote:
Can you tell us one more time about your feelings on socialists? I didn’t quite get the gist the first 10,000 times you’ve posted this. Must be a blast at parties. :lol:



LOL

party conversations are interesting.


LOL
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Podman » September 5th, 2018, 6:47 pm

beaslbob wrote:
kinda hard to see where a government regulation would have prevented any of that especially when the dangers of a commonly used substance was unknown. Meanwhile radium is no longer used in watches.



You think OSHA would have overlooked this?

These women were poisoned by their employers who knew the material was dangerous. One employer even trained his employees to lick their brushes in order to keep a fine point. For some reason the whole article didn't paste here.. Go to the link and read the article, they knew this was an awful idea.
I watched a documentary on this and in an attempt to cover up the atrocity of his own behavior, one employer publicly shamed the affected women as sexual deviants that had contracted syphilis and painted himself as the victim. Him being a pillar of society that was being punished for attempting to pull a few impoverished young women from the muck.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » September 6th, 2018, 9:50 am

beaslbob wrote:
Podman wrote:
beaslbob wrote:
What particular problems does a free market capitalist society with no government regulation create?

Radium Girls, female factory workers exposed to radium poisoning without their knowledge, were even encouraged to lick radium paintbrushes
Dec 19, 2017 Nikola Budanovic


During the early 20th century, little was known about radioactive elements. In 1898, Marie Curie and her husband, Pierre, discovered two such elements in their experiments―radium and polonium. In 1902, samples of radium were given to an American inventor and scientist, William Hammer, who experimented with its use in medicine.

Since its discovery, radium has been perceived as a possible cure for cancer, and as such was largely perceived as a healthy element with little or no negative side effects whatsoever. This led to a fad in products intended for home use, such as radium-enriched water, toothpaste, lipsticks, cosmetics, and a number of drugs that claimed to cure everything from arthritis to high blood pressure.

Luckily, all these products contained a very low amount of radium, which rendered them harmless. Whether they indeed cured all of the above-mentioned diseases is very doubtful, but one thing became apparent during the years of meddling with this dangerous substance―as radium decays and comes in contact with other elements, it reacts by releasing a glow.

In the meantime, Dr. Sabin Arnold von Sochocky discovered a way to produce special paint mixed with radium and other substances and registered it under the brand name UnDark. The patent soon found its purpose with the U.S. military, which used it to illuminate numbers and dials used for watches so they could glow in the dark.

In 1917, the U.S. entered the war, thus shifting the main workforce from men to women. The factories employed local women to paint clocks with deadly radium paint. These women were paid substantially more than other factory workers, but were not instructed in any possible side-effects of radium, causing most of them to suffer from radiation poisoning in the years to follow.

The clocks painted with radium were mainly produced in three factories, under different companies. The first was in New Jersey, second in Illinois, and the third in Connecticut.

Even though there were several companies in the radium paint business, the United States Radium Corporation (USRC), with its factory based in Orange, New Jersey, would gain the most notoriety concerning the neglect of workers’ health, as it would be the first to encounter radiation poisoning among their work staff.

While the employers and the higher staff had some limited knowledge of the dangers the mysterious element contained, the workers had none.

The chemists used lead screens, masks and other pieces of protective equipment while working with radium, clearly aware of the potential consequences.A competitor company called Radium Dial Corporation, based in Illinois, was beginning to suffer the same fate as USRC. Cases like this began to appear in Canada as well. The truth was out, and there was no way to contain it.

The corporations, together with their military contractor, were trying to reduce the damage that had been done. It was later determined that at least one of the examinations conducted on the factory workers was fake, in order to show that there was no radiation poisoning at hand, simply a viral infection.

Also, the companies were instructing the medical professionals conducting the examinations to keep quiet about their discoveries. In order to further cover it up, the symptoms were attributed to syphilis, which was still a widespread sexually transmitted disease at the time.

Litigation by the women affected by radium soon followed. It received widespread media coverage and support from the public, even though it proved fairly difficult to take on corporations such as United States Radium Corp. and Radium Dial. In addition to the hardships of pursuing lawsuits, many of the workers were already bedridden by the time the court session was scheduled in January 1928.

Five women who managed to testify―Grace Fryer, Edna Hussman, Katherine Schaub, and sisters Quinta McDonald and Albina Larice―were dubbed by the media as the Radium Girls. The term soon applied to all of the radium-dial female factory workers.

It was a slow-moving case, as the court was often pressured to rule in favor of the companies. In the end, justice triumphed, even though it was too late for many of the affected.


https://www.thevintagenews.com/2017/12/19/radium-girls/


kinda hard to see where a government regulation would have prevented any of that especially when the dangers of a commonly used substance was unknown. Meanwhile radium is no longer used in watches.


Speaking of dangerous elements...Gas companies poisoned the entire planet with leaded gasoline and made entire generations stupider. They also fought hard to keep it around. Good thing govt stepped in and stopped them from selling it. The free market did nothing. Right?

PS did you know leaded gasoline is still used in some parts of the world? Yeah, the places where govt is virtually non-existent or ineffective due to civil war. Yemen, Iraq.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » September 6th, 2018, 11:18 am

Podman wrote:
...

You think OSHA would have overlooked this?

....


No. OSHA would have made no difference.

see graph on my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/bobbiegrace.chang
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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