Libertaria

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Re: Libertaria

Postby Podman » August 1st, 2018, 7:03 pm

The definition of "success" as it is most commonly used would be applied to an achievement of some desired goal. You have arbitrarily decided that this word is somehow tied to wealth and income.. for me this is an indicator that you likely put little value on priceless things like family, nature, etc.
To me these things have far more value and are most worthy of setting lofty goals to which someone can dream and achieve some levels of success.
Proof of this success can certainly be measured objectively.. An endangered reef in Belize can certainly make a successful rebound just as a person can fail to raise children.. no financial audits necessary.

Regarding your spreadsheet... You have adopted this defensive mechanism for your overly simplified world view.. in it the government is in cahoots with the liberals and they are playing with the numbers to put one over on the good guys and if everyone was just smart enough they'd see that it's plain as day but in reality there is really no argument to be made here..

BETWEEN 1998 AND 2013 THE TOP 10% OF WAGE EARNERS HAVE EXPERIENCED A 75% RAISE IN MEDIAN NET WORTH WHILE THE OTHER 90 PERCENT EXPERIENCED A 32% DECREASE.

This isn't class warfare propaganda, its data from a federal study.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 2nd, 2018, 10:56 am

Podman wrote:The definition of "success" as it is most commonly used would be applied to an achievement of some desired goal. You have arbitrarily decided that this word is somehow tied to wealth and income.. for me this is an indicator that you likely put little value on priceless things like family, nature, etc.
To me these things have far more value and are most worthy of setting lofty goals to which someone can dream and achieve some levels of success.
Proof of this success can certainly be measured objectively.. An endangered reef in Belize can certainly make a successful rebound just as a person can fail to raise children.. no financial audits necessary.
just like on an airplane you put on your oxygen mask then the kids, being successful means you can provide housing, food, medical, clothing and so on for your family and loved ones. And pay for restoring reefs and so on. More successful people providing support to those things is actually putting more value on them.


Regarding your spreadsheet... You have adopted this defensive mechanism for your overly simplified world view.. in it the government is in cahoots with the liberals and they are playing with the numbers to put one over on the good guys and if everyone was just smart enough they'd see that it's plain as day but in reality there is really no argument to be made here..

BETWEEN 1998 AND 2013 THE TOP 10% OF WAGE EARNERS HAVE EXPERIENCED A 75% RAISE IN MEDIAN NET WORTH WHILE THE OTHER 90 PERCENT EXPERIENCED A 32% DECREASE.

This isn't class warfare propaganda, its data from a federal study.


And so what?

More class envy clap trap. That list of net worth has exactly 20% on the bottom 20%in the middle and 20% at the top. The 80 year old widow investments increased more then they guy living in a rented apartment. Again So what?

Plus it is net worth not income. So it is based on the idea if you sell everything at listed price and pay off all the debts, how much is left over? Selling assets almost always results in value lower then book value. Plus fluctuations in markets cause more shifts.

So what is the answer to all that "shocking" stuff. Oh I see let's just seize those assets and give to the more deserving people. With the result of massive lay offs, less goods being manufacturer, more and more people living it tar paper shacks or cardboard boxes than in the million dollar mansions seized. So the end result is people now all live in cardboard boxes and have no income. But that is exactly what the socialists dream of. Everyone making exactly the same amount and having exactly the same thing.
Last edited by beaslbob on August 2nd, 2018, 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Podman » August 2nd, 2018, 12:30 pm

No one is talking about seizing property and ****.. lay off the info wars or whatever you've been filling your head with. There are no liberal fascists or vast left wing conspiracy within our government. Not one politician or talking head that I am aware of is pushing for "Everyone making exactly the same amount and having exactly the same thing". Please listen to a more reputable news source before you double down with all the stories of pizzagate and liberal elitists, etc.

I speak for myself when I say that I have zero envy towards people that are wealthier than I am.. Like Biggie said, "Mo' Money, Mo' Problems".
I believe that with large sums of money comes large sums of responsibility. An important personal goal for myself is to be as thoughtful and understanding of all walks of life as I can manage... and I don't think a conscientious person would ever stock pile millions of dollars while so many people struggle to obtain basic healthcare.

It's not that I don't believe there are people out there that want a free ride off some billionaire's money.. but not all those people are poor or liberal and in the present economy most of the freeloaders appear to be on the wealthier end of the spectrum.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 2nd, 2018, 1:53 pm

Podman wrote:No one is talking about seizing property and ****..




That is exactly what the progressive income tax is all about and all the welfare programs. That is the leftist, socialist core beliefs. And it will never end until everyone is making the exact same amount regardless of what they contribute. If you do not believe that then you simply don't understand the philosophy and effect of their policies and beliefs.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Podman » August 2nd, 2018, 3:41 pm

I think I stumbled upon Sean Hannity's burner account.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 2nd, 2018, 6:06 pm

Podman wrote:I think I stumbled upon Sean Hannity's burner account.

LOL

I must have had a very valid point.

LOL
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby bigchuck33 » August 2nd, 2018, 6:51 pm

Empirically, social democrats can point to the Nordic model of social and economic policies as evidence of the efficacy of their policy solutions. Ideology aside, outcomes such as health, happiness, and equality of opportunity can be measured to some degree (let's assume these outcomes are universally valued). Modern Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Sweden rank favorably on the global surveys.

Which societies, past or present, would libertarians proffer as a model for how they would envision their ideal national community?
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Podman » August 2nd, 2018, 6:55 pm

beaslbob wrote:
Podman wrote:I think I stumbled upon Sean Hannity's burner account.

LOL

I must have had a very valid point.

LOL


If you admire or find Sean Hannity's points valid, you are truly lost.

The man and his opinions are truly repulsive..
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 3rd, 2018, 5:16 pm

bigchuck33 wrote:Empirically, social democrats can point to the Nordic model of social and economic policies as evidence of the efficacy of their policy solutions. Ideology aside, outcomes such as health, happiness, and equality of opportunity can be measured to some degree (let's assume these outcomes are universally valued). Modern Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Sweden rank favorably on the global surveys.

Which societies, past or present, would libertarians proffer as a model for how they would envision their ideal national community?

The US prior to 1930. Build the best standard of living and strongest economy the world has ever seen. the Nordic model has capitalism economically and are not as socialistic as it seems. for instance one country discovered that the unemployed (with 5 year unemployment benefits) were unemployed for 5 years then found jobs in a few months. So they reduced it to 3 years and same thing. So they reduced it further.
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 3rd, 2018, 5:19 pm

Podman wrote:
beaslbob wrote:
Podman wrote:I think I stumbled upon Sean Hannity's burner account.

LOL

I must have had a very valid point.

LOL


If you admire or find Sean Hannity's points valid, you are truly lost.

The man and his opinions are truly repulsive..


Gee you disagree with me. Who would have thunk?

You comment is the same as me saying you agree with Harry Reid, Barack Obama, either Clinton etc etc etc.

Which is totally irrelevant to actually discussing the policies and their effects of (for instance) redistributing success.
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » August 9th, 2018, 4:47 am

beaslbob wrote:The US prior to 1930.


Did you seriously just offer the time period immediately preceding the Great Depression as proof? Wow. :lol:
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 9th, 2018, 8:06 am

Matt_ wrote:
beaslbob wrote:The US prior to 1930.


Did you seriously just offer the time period immediately preceding the Great Depression as proof? Wow. :lol:

Yep.
Built the best economy the world had ever seen then created the depression through government action
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » August 9th, 2018, 4:02 pm

:lol: okay. All good things come from business and all bad things come from government. Who sends you your paycheck again?

I’m going to go with the 1920s being less than “the ideal national community” on account of how we treated minorities back then. Also prohibition. But that’s probably something you don’t care about.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 9th, 2018, 4:25 pm

Matt_ wrote::lol: okay. All good things come from business and all bad things come from government. Who sends you your paycheck again?

I’m going to go with the 1920s being less than “the ideal national community” on account of how we treated minorities back then. Also prohibition. But that’s probably something you don’t care about.

I thought you would have really liked the fact that the most successful provided the most revenues to the government.
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » August 9th, 2018, 6:45 pm

So in your opinion the economy doing well is more important than minorities riding on the back of the bus and being denied the right to vote. I already knew this about you Bob, but thanks for confirming.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby bigchuck33 » August 9th, 2018, 8:54 pm

Convince China to un-industrialize. Decimate Europe with a world war. And baby, you got an economy going.

Or you could just move to California :D
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Re: Libertaria

Postby Matt_ » August 9th, 2018, 9:27 pm

Just make black people work for free! Economy does great! Just ask all those Confederates. It's a wonderful free market system, eh Bob?
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 10th, 2018, 1:26 pm

Matt_ wrote:So in your opinion the economy doing well is more important than minorities riding on the back of the bus and being denied the right to vote. I already knew this about you Bob, but thanks for confirming.

Nope.

Both are important. A great economy is not dependent on minorities riding on the back of the bus.

Personal freedom and a civil society requires respect for fellow human beings. And the freedom to build products people want to buy creates a thriving economy. Personal freedom allows people to take care of each other as well.
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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Re: Libertaria

Postby beaslbob » August 10th, 2018, 1:28 pm

Matt_ wrote:Just make black people work for free! Economy does great! Just ask all those Confederates. It's a wonderful free market system, eh Bob?

Nope.

Stealing from the most successful doesn't make for a very good economy also.
since 79 ~12 fw leidens , ~8 years FO salt, mixed reef, Currently-10g FW leiden (30 fish) since 2002, 55g display mixed reef since 2003, 20g Fw leiden from oct 2006. 29g mixed reef since 2005. Very strong emphasis on the tank maintaining itself. tap water, no water changes.
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